Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 16:58:00 -0600 From: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" <freebsd@gushi.org> To: Ian Smith <smithi@nimnet.asn.au> Cc: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de>, "Kevin P. Neal" <kpn@neutralgood.org>, "Steve O'Hara-Smith" <steve@sohara.org>, "questions@freebsd.org" <questions@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: 12.4 disc 1 iso is really large Message-ID: <30F66AE4-985D-48E1-8EE7-DE4FF712CB75@gushi.org> In-Reply-To: <6B0B7DD7-8562-4E77-8809-768DB6E8ADFC@nimnet.asn.au> References: <4AC6140B-2927-46C4-8405-18FA872DEAB5@gushi.org> <20221209050452.40918a6bcccb953c197ecec6@sohara.org> <Y5QPnrqluEtgLrNn@neutralgood.org> <20221210072243.9109d9c9.freebsd@edvax.de> <6B0B7DD7-8562-4E77-8809-768DB6E8ADFC@nimnet.asn.au>
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--Apple-Mail=_FA420F85-C24B-442E-BE82-8F750A600293 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Dec 10, 2022, at 11:47 AM, Ian Smith <smithi@nimnet.asn.au> wrote: >=20 > On 10 December 2022 5:22:43 pm AEDT, Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de = <mailto:freebsd@edvax.de>> wrote: >=20 >> On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 23:48:30 -0500, Kevin P. Neal wrote: >=20 >>> On Fri, Dec 09, 2022 at 05:04:52AM +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >=20 >>>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 22:58:01 -0600 >>>> "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" <freebsd@gushi.org> wrote: >=20 >>>>> All, >>>>>=20 >>>>> I=E2=80=99m just noticing that the standard FreeBSD iso is some = 959 >> megs: >>>>>=20 >> = http://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/ISO-IMAGES/12.4/FreeBSD-12.4-R= ELEASE-amd64-disc1.iso >>>>>=20 >>>>> Is there something in the release notes that basically implies >> we no >>>>> longer expect people to burn things to actual discs? >=20 >>>> You need a DVD - it's been some time since it fitted on a CD >> <sigh> >>>> I still remember doing installs from floppies. >=20 >>> So... what's the point of the "disc1" image that today requires a >> DVD if >>> there's also a "dvd" image made to be burned to a DVD? >=20 >> I've been asking this ("complaining about it") in the past. >> As it seems, the regular 650 MB / 700 MG size of a CD can >> no longer hold a FreeBSD installation... which is strange, >> because if it would be possible to reduce the amount of >> packages (!) on the disc, it would be suitable for use >=20 > Sorry, but there are no packages at all on disc1, or the equivalently = sized memstick. Only the dvd1 image has any packages, 932 in ~2.2GB=20 >=20 >> with CD media again, as it was in the past: The classic >> "4 CDs approach" of older FreeBSD versions contained: >>=20 >> CD #1 with system installation and _some_ packages >>=20 >> CD #2 with a live system >>=20 >> CDs #3 and #4 with all other packages >>=20 >> So CD #1 could always be used to install a working OS, and >> you could also install some packages (like X, Midnigh Commander, >> joe, vim, and other useful stuff). For the ultimate selection >> of packages, discs #3 and #4 would be used (if needed), ot >> the installation could continue via Internet. However, a >> complete offline installation was possible. >=20 > Indeed. Trev Roydhouse used to mail me his hand-me-down 4 CD Walnut = Creek sets; we had 2.0.5 (?), 2.2.6 which enabled the nimnet.asn.au = <http://nimnet.asn.au/>; server in '98, later 3.something, 4.5 ... >=20 > OTOH that was an AMD 586 140MHz box with 2GB RAM and a 4GB hdd, later = 20GB, with CDR later CD-RW, with 1 dialout and 3 dialup modems. >=20 > Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. >=20 > I've been working on retrieving the offline install possibility for = months, and managed with some tricks and patches to get 'bsdconfig = packages' working on the 12.3 dvd1 image to install X, KDE and some = utilities, all offline - but it's considered a weird thing to want to do = these days ... what "third world connectivity"? >=20 >> Strange thing: The "bootonly" and "minimal install" images >> intended for use with USB media _could_ fit on a CD. >=20 > Still can, bootonly.iso is ~355MB, mini-memstick is ~360MB. >=20 > But full installers, even without any packages, really can't; = everything has swollen that much. Here are sizes >1MiB on (amd64) = disc1: >=20 > 2 /bin > 2 /etc > 3 /var > 8 /sbin > 13 /lib > 156 /boot > 812 /usr > 993 / >=20 > 3 /usr/libexec > 19 /usr/sbin > 20 /usr/lib > 40 /usr/bin > 127 /usr/share > 605 /usr/freebsd-dist > 812 /usr >=20 > /usr/freebsd-dist has, all as .txz: > tests 13 > kernel 44 > ports 45 > lib32 62 > kernel-dbg 83 > src 171 > base 191 > total 605MB I still rely on booting from CD on a regular basis. There are USB = cdroms in all my datacenters, and =E2=80=9Cburn an iso to disc=E2=80=9D = still feels way more useful to tell remote hands how to do than trying = to explain how to image an iso onto a memory stick (which can vary based = on formatting and OS). Much as I love my idracs, at the day job we still have a number of older = systems limping along doing Important Internet Things where that = reinstall use-case matters. (How I got them all upgraded to current = versions of FreeBSD may be my BSDCan talk). CDs are still the lowest common denominator. Not all of the above freebsd-dist files are equal. You need kernel and = base to get a running system. Everything else can be gotten later. Ports basically requires an active internet connection to build anything = =E2=80=94 putting it on the disc is largely pointless. Portsnap is in = base. Src is outdated as soon as it=E2=80=99s extracted in most cases, and = user education as to =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=99s how you get the source if = you need it=E2=80=9D would serve us better. Kernel-dbg is also not the kind of thing most people are going to need = without having net access, but I could see if being useful for doing = things like bringing up new boards, lab systems, special configurations. So =E2=80=94 if we eliminated src, and just started teaching people that = if you want to build things from src, you should get them from git, or = the src.tar.xz on the ftp site, things would still fit easily for a = while to come. -Dan --Apple-Mail=_FA420F85-C24B-442E-BE82-8F750A600293 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: = after-white-space;"><br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec = 10, 2022, at 11:47 AM, Ian Smith <smithi@nimnet.asn.au> = wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta = charset=3D"UTF-8"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">On 10 December 2022 = 5:22:43 pm AEDT, Polytropon <</span><a href=3D"mailto:freebsd@edvax.de"= style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: = none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: = 0px;">freebsd@edvax.de</a><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">> = wrote:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: = start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">On Fri, 9 Dec = 2022 23:48:30 -0500, Kevin P. Neal wrote:<br></blockquote><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">On Fri, Dec 09, 2022 at 05:04:52AM +0000, Steve = O'Hara-Smith wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 22:58:01 = -0600<br>"Dan Mahoney (Ports)" <freebsd@gushi.org> = wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">All,<br><br>I=E2=80=99m just noticing that the standard = FreeBSD iso is some = 959<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>megs:<br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>http://ftp.freebs= d.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/ISO-IMAGES/12.4/FreeBSD-12.4-RELEASE-amd64-disc= 1.iso<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br>Is there something in the release notes that basically = implies<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>we no<br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">longer = expect people to burn things to actual = discs?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" = style=3D"white-space: pre;"> </span>You need a DVD - it's been some = time since it fitted on a = CD<br></blockquote></blockquote><sigh><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I still remember doing installs = from floppies.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">So... what's the point of the "disc1" image that today = requires a<br></blockquote>DVD if<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">there's = also a "dvd" image made to be burned to a = DVD?<br></blockquote></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">I've been asking = this ("complaining about it") in the past.<br>As it seems, the regular = 650 MB / 700 MG size of a CD can<br>no longer hold a FreeBSD = installation... which is strange,<br>because if it would be possible to = reduce the amount of<br>packages (!) on the disc, it would be suitable = for use<br></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Sorry, = but there are no packages at all on disc1, or the equivalently sized = memstick. Only the dvd1 image has any packages, 932 in ~2.2GB<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">with CD media = again, as it was in the past: The classic<br>"4 CDs approach" of older = FreeBSD versions contained:<br><br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" = style=3D"white-space: pre;"> </span>CD #1 with system installation = and _some_ packages<br><br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" = style=3D"white-space: pre;"> </span>CD #2 with a live = system<br><br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: = pre;"> </span>CDs #3 and #4 with all other packages<br><br>So CD #1 = could always be used to install a working OS, and<br>you could also = install some packages (like X, Midnigh Commander,<br>joe, vim, and other = useful stuff). For the ultimate selection<br>of packages, discs #3 and = #4 would be used (if needed), ot<br>the installation could continue via = Internet. However, a<br>complete offline installation was = possible.<br></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Indeed. = Trev Roydhouse used to mail me his hand-me-down 4 CD Walnut Creek = sets; we had 2.0.5 (?), 2.2.6 which enabled the<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a = href=3D"http://nimnet.asn.au/" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: = start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">nimnet.asn.au</a><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;"><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>server in '98, later = 3.something, 4.5 ...</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">OTOH = that was an AMD 586 140MHz box with 2GB RAM and a 4GB hdd, later 20GB, = with CDR later CD-RW, with 1 dialout and 3 dialup modems.</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">Nostalgia ain't what it used to = be.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">I've been working on = retrieving the offline install possibility for months, and managed with = some tricks and patches to get 'bsdconfig packages' working on the 12.3 = dvd1 image to install X, KDE and some utilities, all offline - but it's = considered a weird thing to want to do these days ... what "third world = connectivity"?</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Strange thing: = The "bootonly" and "minimal install" images<br>intended for use with USB = media _could_ fit on a CD.<br></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Still = can, bootonly.iso is ~355MB, mini-memstick is ~360MB.</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">But full installers, even without any = packages, really can't; everything has swollen that much. Here are = sizes >1MiB on (amd64) disc1:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, = 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">2 = /bin</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">2 = /etc</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">3 = /var</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">8 = /sbin</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">13 = /lib</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">156 = /boot</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">812 /usr</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">993 /</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">3 = /usr/libexec</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">19 = /usr/sbin</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">20 = /usr/lib</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">40 = /usr/bin</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">127 = /usr/share</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">605 = /usr/freebsd-dist</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">812 = /usr</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">/usr/freebsd-dist has, = all as .txz:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">tests = 13</span= ><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">kernel = 44</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">ports = 45</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">lib32 = 62</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">kernel-dbg 83</span><br style=3D"caret-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">src = 17= 1</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">base = 191</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">total 605MB</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I still = rely on booting from CD on a regular basis. There are USB cdroms = in all my datacenters, and =E2=80=9Cburn an iso to disc=E2=80=9D still = feels way more useful to tell remote hands how to do than trying to = explain how to image an iso onto a memory stick (which can vary based on = formatting and OS).</div><div><br></div><div>Much as I love my idracs, = at the day job we still have a number of older systems limping along = doing Important Internet Things where that reinstall use-case matters. = (How I got them all upgraded to current versions of FreeBSD may be = my BSDCan talk).</div><div><br></div><div>CDs are still the lowest = common denominator.</div><div><br></div><div>Not all of the above = freebsd-dist files are equal. You need kernel and base to get a = running system. Everything else can be gotten = later.</div><div><br></div><div>Ports basically requires an active = internet connection to build anything =E2=80=94 putting it on the disc = is largely pointless. Portsnap is in = base.</div><div><br></div><div>Src is outdated as soon as it=E2=80=99s = extracted in most cases, and user education as to =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=99s = how you get the source if you need it=E2=80=9D would serve us = better.</div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Kernel-dbg is also not the kind of thing most = people are going to need without having net access, but I could see if = being useful for doing things like bringing up new boards, lab systems, = special configurations.</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></span></div><div>So =E2=80=94 = if we eliminated src, and just started teaching people that if you want = to build things from src, you should get them from git, or the = src.tar.xz on the ftp site, things would still fit easily for a while to = come.</div><div><br></div><div>-Dan</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></d= iv><br></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_FA420F85-C24B-442E-BE82-8F750A600293--
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