Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:21:14 -0400 From: Kris Moore <kris@pcbsd.org> To: Lars Engels <lme@FreeBSD.org>,freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve Message-ID: <428ef630-c2b4-4a42-b2c6-c34d63a8f353@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: <37fed82f77901f0e44abddc6d86895c3@mail.0x20.net> References: "<slrnj4oiiq.21rg.vadim_nuclight@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net>" <1144162985.20110818235011@serebryakov.spb.ru> <slrnj4r2q8.2853.vadim_nuclight@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <4E4DD059.50403@freebsd.org> <37fed82f77901f0e44abddc6d86895c3@mail.0x20.net>
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Lars Engels <lme@FreeBSD.org> wrote: >On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:54:17 -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: >> On 8/18/11 2:59 PM, Vadim Goncharov wrote: >>> Hi Lev Serebryakov! >>> >>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:50:11 +0400; Lev Serebryakov wrote about 'Re: > >>> FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve': >>> >>>>> 8) There is no -STABLE supported branches in ports. >>>> I want to be more precise here: not -STABLE, but all -RELEASE >>>> branches, where "upstream" version of ports/packages never changes, >>>> and only security bugfixes are backported. >>> To be even more precise, they need a guarantee that automatic >>> updates >>> will not break anything so that it could be put to cron like >>> "apt-cron". >>> This goal could be satisfied by another means, I hope: FreeBSD >>> developers >>> unlikely to have enough time/efforts to keep it for *all* -RELEASE >>> branches, >>> but for only chosen ones (e.g. extended security support) - may be. >>> >> while all the talk about new ports frameworks etc is nice, it is >> still annoying that the ports and FreeBSD crews don't take >> the *new* PBI infrastructure that is being pused out with PCBSD-9 >> as an important move. The new PBI infrastructure should be taken >> into the ports system as an important factor. For those who do not >> know it, it give a facility somewhat like the what that APPLE >> applications work. At the potential (not always) for having redundant >> libraries, every PBI package comes with EVERYTHING IT NEEDS. >> there are no 'dependnet packages' as such. On install a >> survey is made so that if anything is found to be truly duplicated >> (different versions of the same library are NOT considered a >> duplicate) >> then they share, but if not then each package installs and ONLY USES >> the stuff that came with it. >> >> The ramifications of this (in this era of large disks) are immense. >> If you unstall all your main applications using PBI, then if you >> screw >> up your ports installed libraries and development environment when >> you >> install some new version of the XXX runtime, *your applications keep >> working*. >> >> A case of "it just works". For the life of me I don't understand WHY > >> there >> is this resistance to taking it into the fold. Especially when all >> the >> work has already been done. It won't replace pkgng and it it won't >> replace >> ports because it actually uses ports to generate the PBI packages. >> But it should be teh default delivery mechanism for binary basic >> packages. >> >> >> As I said.. go run an apple for a while and see what it is supposed >> to be like. >> > >PBIs are a nice thing but.... > >The thing that sucked about PBIs at least in PCBSD 8.x is that the PBIs > >are >too big to download. We may all have big disks but there are many >people around >who don't have fast internet access. E.g. the Firefox PBI is about 100 >MB of size >and there's a new version of it every few days. Add Thunderbird, VLC >and OpenOffice >to that list and your're downloading some GBs per month just to get >your security >holes closed. >What is the situation like in PCBSD 9.x? I heard that it was planned to > >offer >update deltas which should be much smaller. If that's so, I'm all for >PBIs. FYI, in 9 updates are done via deltas, or more specifically bsdiff, which often makes the download file a fraction of the size. The update to a 100mb firefox pbi may only be 5-6 mb, just depends on the size of the changes. -- Kris Moore
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