From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 21:45:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463DD16A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:45:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B795343D58 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:44:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0BLh2Gm013976; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:43:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:43:02 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20060111.144302.74736479.imp@bsdimp.com> To: darren.pilgrim@bitfreak.org From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <002301c616dd$5ca99940$672a15ac@smiley> References: <20060110.234350.82839919.imp@bsdimp.com> <002301c616dd$5ca99940$672a15ac@smiley> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:43:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:45:02 -0000 From: "Darren Pilgrim" Subject: RE: Ricoh PCI to SD device? Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:32:16 -0800 > From: M. Warner Losh [mailto:imp@bsdimp.com] > > In message: <001401c61676$3fa0c290$672a15ac@smiley> > > "Darren Pilgrim" writes: > > : From: Brooks Davis > > : > On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: > > : > > Has anyone had a look at the following: > > : > > > > : [ Ricoh SD Bus Host Adapter, PCI ID 0x08221180 ] > > : > > > : > People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. > > : > Apparently, there is some work being done to reverse engineer > > : > it. Linux doesn't support it either. > > : > > : That's odd, because Ricoh provides technical documentation upon > > : request via the LSI Contact Us[1] page on their website. > > : > > : 1: http://www.ricoh.com/LSI/mail.html > > > > Are you sure they provide technical documentation sufficent to write > > the driver? The last time I asked, I got a nice document that said > > that it implemented the sds standard sd host interface, but didn't > > document what that was. TI and winbond chips datasheets are the same > > way. Prove me wrong. I'd love it :-) > > The SD protocols aren't open standards. Ricoh can't legally include > information about the protocols in their documentation. Without working > implementation of the SDA's standards, FreeBSD is stuck. I don't blame the > funding behind FreeBSD development for not ponying up the dosh; I think such > fees are extortion made legal by intellectual property laws. The SD protocols are protected by trade secret means. Some of the protocol has leaked out, and can easily be implemented, once someone knows how to send the protocol to the devices on the bus. There may be some patent issues with the DRM control that's in the SD parts that may be problematic. There's no way to know all the issues because of the NDAs. The SDA Standard SD Host Interface is covered, as far as the basics go, should be reverse engineerable. There's enough data floating out there which should help those trying to engineer it. I don't think I'll be doing it, however. Warner