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Date:      Sun, 01 Nov 1998 16:45:47 -0800
From:      Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
To:        Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
Cc:        current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: New boot loader and alternate kernels 
Message-ID:  <199811020045.QAA06857@dingo.cdrom.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 01 Nov 1998 15:47:20 %2B0100." <199811011447.PAA21479@ocean.campus.luth.se> 

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> According to Mike Smith:
> > I have no desire to miss it.  Give me a compact Forth interpreter that 
> > links against libstand and you'll be seeing it everywhere Real Soon.
> 
> Eeep! Umm... what exactly does this mean? I mean... I don't know anyone
> that knows forth... lots of people know sh. And a logical special
> language (whic resembles sh and the other script languages) is not 
> real hard to learn either. Why mess it up and get forth in there? And
> to do what exactly?

Forth is a candidate because it can be implemented in a very compact
fashion, and bytecoded Forth is also very compact.  In situations where
space is an issue, this gives it an enormous advantage.  eg. the current
trivial interpreter is about 10k (minus command implementations); this
is about the same size as the complete Forth interpreter we're looking
at.

Using Forth gives us two major advantages:

 - Because we can construct bindings between primitives economically, 
   additional functionality can be added with a correspondingly smaller
   accumulation of bloat.
 - The behaviour of the bootloader can be extended without having to 
   rebuild it.  It becomes possible to attach extra intelligence to 
   the boot process allowing customisation eg. on a per-product or 
   per-module basis.

This is all very experimental, and I take your point about the learning 
curve very seriously.  If you can propose an extensible language with a 
"traditional" syntax which can compete on a size basis (code, runtime 
usage and bytecode size) then I would be happy to consider it.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msmith@cdrom.com



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