From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 17 16:17:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55E37799 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm33-vm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm33-vm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.239.205]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 056548A6 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:17:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.212.151] by nm33.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2014 16:15:13 -0000 Received: from [98.139.213.9] by tm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2014 16:15:13 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp109.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2014 16:15:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1395072913; bh=Q0bWnkOKpUy6xhJEkS0NaXvvp4uaeUSxOuoYfqZZ5UA=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:References:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Cc:X-Mailer:From:Subject:Date:To; b=sYONTIOVMTUEnqNTDxeuGsOfhUvLit7z6E6pUdcSu7Jrc0j0ELBYXtBUmRrdtWKC0w0rM7i7Wiq+OJyed/qOwzUjZWyyzc7nPKB9vMp85WWpSsvi2K7aGo0n3uTTurLuitx8UZmgdEseTqwxhgys+boZK/+8e4Rv6nfRbpEk+EI= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 557953.1854.bm@smtp109.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: TB2kGWcVM1lssu00kOJY.vLuSNwZRJFyHXYXMpmM1XrpFi2 b2MO8TkuGgL4n2UD.1W_ONKbqCu.W4eScB.Dakoa8WeUYOxzE2iPItPhVnta XSAkNN9mfZJGAIE_Qzmwq0zeg0ebQ_LIG4zeTiOOx98qzioww2XduhMCdzVF I76hiqi9CqVloiDIlMB07A2xO1dpjpj0Q2BpQGnLSMEVh5h3Nsx2bmW.lzwc CfAa9WuikBUJqRQXBS18kIQY0CamBErYOUFlIhKYRs4BHvvp99PpI6lHbUyI Wt7Vnc8ccLSYSD9zMCMkhIQ9xu5iUyYDhXAfbOwFVQzOYcLBcHbZYuwA1bd5 0sVyPBdDelA6a1sZymEry2OkMPJkdT9FCIPlb.pt9HqTl8_GKsuh3kYy40OE 8ESjHobc2R3YICvuxVE1fEHzL_ZaL1ewpFYe89PWpVSs3As.MlVQxH8I7VsM d7YpC2BJnnlFT0YF4bbHMQqQh1sC10eZZHd_aNKkCnoHJRWCVGMIwmFijZ75 QTzIkI6YDJv1IMEUxIUoRF_iEMbdGAYfBS1aZJR1Rf6P6zw2vulOe3AlvJVX bAA_L3aY5vvsUKK9t X-Yahoo-SMTP: LAFNfTaswBDguI7meB90l2l3wOU- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.147.101.71] (free7by@117.136.24.130 with xymcookie [106.10.149.123]) by smtp109.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2014 09:15:13 -0700 PDT References: <20140317103830.53c42ade@X220.alogt.com> <611B8DE5-F593-4574-96AB-0965CA7EDF33@yahoo.com> <5326D093.90308@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <39562806-80F4-4D4C-BAFD-20DCB537B303@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D169) From: by Subject: Re: Something related to C and C++ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 00:15:01 +0800 To: Johan Bucht Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.17 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:17:20 -0000 I totally agree with you! Actually, now I prefer the domain which is not too low but not too high neit= her, in a word, I think being a system programmer should be cool. - by > On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:22, Johan Bucht wrote: >=20 > As there are different strengths and weaknesses resulting from the design d= ecisions chosen for the different languages, learn as many different types a= s you can and experience how they shape solutions to problems in different w= ays and how you reason about them. >=20 > "I have never met anybody who has changed their reasoning first and their h= abits second. You change your habits first." >=20 > The end goal is to solve problems in your domain, having a languages that m= aps perfectly to that domain (or makes it easy to create domain specific lan= guages in) will certainly make it easier to read and write that code. But is= it worth creating and maintaining that language for a small domain and trai= n people in it? General purpose languages exists because of this. They might= not map perfectly to the domain, but they have familiarity and cross breedi= ng between users in different domains. > Some languages are really small with little functionality included in the s= tandard library, others are huge and contain a lot of seldom used functional= ity. For the small languages you might need to write common functionality yo= urself or find something someone else has written. For large languages you g= et that for free and most users will use what's provided. You get a standard= way of solving problems, but the tools might not be best of breed or suit y= our specific use case. >=20 > /Johan >=20 >=20 >> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:38 AM, by wrote: >> Yes, you are right, i have some prejudice for C++ before, but now, i thin= k i won't, cause if i have not deeply working for some languages, technologi= es, i have no right to judge it, i need more and more practice : ) >> Different fields got different technologies, the only key i think is that= which field you prefer, and what kind of technology you prefer. >>=20 >> - by >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 2014/3/17 17:14, Johan Bucht wrote: >>> Working in higher level languages like Java, Ruby, Python and C++ does h= ave >>> some advantages to C and some disadvantages. There are always trade offs= >>> and there will always be languages closer to the domain that will be mor= e >>> elegant to solve specific problems. >>> If you're mainly doing programming close to the hardware the abstraction= s >>> from those higher level languages doesn't add much value and the runtime= >>> with garbage collection and more is something you probably need to be ab= le >>> to turn off. >>> It's of course possible to implement a lot of the features in higher lev= el >>> languages in lower level ones, but the syntax will not be that suitable f= or >>> it and you need to impose restrictions on yourself instead of the langua= ge >>> doing it for you. >>> For some tasks C is too high level and Assembler is needed but for most o= f >>> the tasks any language will do and it's a matter of personal taste. >>>=20 >>> /Johan >>>=20 >>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:50 AM, by wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Well, I think C++'s popular has something related to C's popular use, b= ut >>>> it contains too much, I prefer simple tool, do one thing, and do it wel= l, >>>> no more extras, and build a system with their combinations, at least th= e >>>> base system. >>>>=20 >>>> - by >>>>=20 >>>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:38, Erich Dollansky wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi, >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:20:55 +0800 >>>>> by wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> as C++ is C plus 'some' extras, just start with C. When you know C - >>>>> which you have to know anyway to write C++ programs - you can add C++ >>>>> to your knowledge. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Never forget that object orientated programming is much older than C++= >>>>> and can be done in most languages. I did my first steps in object >>>>> orientated programming in 8080 assembler without even knowing that >>>>> what I did will be later be known as object orientated programming. >>>>>=20 >>>>> The little programming I still do is all done in C but using some of >>>>> the 'addons' of C++. So, all my sources are .cpp files. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Erich >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> At first, I would say, I do not want to lead to a holy war between >>>>>> programming languages, and I am a newbie in this field, but I am >>>>>> confused about this, so I want get some answers or discusses from >>>>>> here to help me thinking about this. I found that in IT industry, C++= >>>>>> has more and more users, I can understand why they do this, C++ can >>>>>> make them build system more easy than C does. okay, I just know a >>>>>> little about C++, but in my feeling, C++ can make you do things in a >>>>>> higher place. Yes, C++ is great, but for me, it is too difficult, or >>>>>> I would say, it is too complicated. I got two books in my hand, one >>>>>> is <>, another is <>>>>> Language>>. Just consider from the weight : ) You can find something.= >>>>>> Language>>In the past, GCC use C, but now it turn to C++, and LLVM is= >>>>>> Language>>written by C++. Yes I prefer C now, and you may say, you >>>>>> Language>>have not use these two languages deeply, how could you >>>>>> Language>>judge them? Yes, I know I should not judge them, but as a >>>>>> Language>>newbie, this is my very feeling, just like a kid first >>>>>> Language>>looking at this world! Simple, but confused. At last, I am >>>>>> Language>>not lead to a holy war between programming languages, I >>>>>> Language>>just confused and want some related answers. This is it. : )= >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> - by >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>>>> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" >=20