From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 06:18:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17724 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:18:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailer.syr.edu (mailer.syr.edu [128.230.20.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17717 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:18:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu) Received: from rodan.syr.edu by mailer.syr.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.3B67A0D0@mailer.syr.edu>; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 9:17:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (cmsedore@localhost) by rodan.syr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA25613 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:17:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rodan.syr.edu: cmsedore owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:17:48 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@rodan.syr.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) In-Reply-To: <19980309133636.38119@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Mon, 9 March 1998 at 2:27:50 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > >> Wine has always required more than a "little push", it's required a > >> Saturn rocket up the ass. When compared to real solutions like SoftPC > >> from Insignia solutions, it's not even close to being sufficient for > >> the intended purpose (running popular Win95 binaries, in case people > >> forgot) and I doubt that it ever will be. > > > > I agree with Jordan on this one. Even quadrupling my time estimates, > > I come out with under 3 years for a small 5 man team to make a WIN32 > > capable of running MicroSoft Office. The 5 coders would have to be > > *serious* about getting the job done. The WINE project, though well > > intentioned, just doesn't seem very serious to me. 8-(. > > OK. This agrees with what I've seen. Maybe they're just not the > world's best hackers. Is anybody interested in doing better? What > are the real problems with doing it right? It seems to me that the > most difficult one is getting documentation, but even a big API is > still finite. Comments? > Microsoft "updates" the API too frequently. Each service pack adds a new function, or a slightly different behaviour to an existing one. If I may offer my opinion, I agree with the poster who noted that what we need is an alternative. In the US, we have a Microsoft monopoly, but MS is going to have much more trouble in India, China, former SU, etc--they simply do not have the capital to invest in MS technologies. I'd like to see an lightweight X11 replacement (eg photon), and apps to run with it. A FreeBSD that ran (with GUI and some apps) on an 8MB 486-66 would be a killer. Cost is not an impossible barrier--we need to achieve $30/seat for OS plus apps. The other side of this problem is turnover costs. During the next US economic downturn, I wonder if companies will continue to ride the 3 year hardware replacement bandwagon. I know that my employer (Syracuse U) cannot do it now. Companies have had extra thick margins and thus been able to afford replacement schedules which are a little silly. The other piece of this that's scary is Microsoft's licensing strategy. They've (at least for large institutions) moved away from the traditional notion of selling you software--they sell you the licenses plus "maintenance" to get you the next version. You wind up with a computing environment that costs you $100-$150 per seat annually for software. Add in $500/year (3 year turnover) for hardware, and you're talking about $600-$650 per seat per year. Some large companies could afford to fund the development of the OS and the apps in-house for what they're currently paying MS for software. Very much IMHO, what's needed is a refined vision, about $1-2m in venture capital, and a nice quiet building out in the country. (I like to code where the population density is <20 people per square mile :) -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message