From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 9 10:09:30 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D305E16A405 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:09:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3E013C441 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:09:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (qtedgn@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l29A9EPY066641; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:09:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id l29A9DeS066640; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:09:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:09:13 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200703091009.l29A9DeS066640@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@elischer.org, m@FreeBSD.ORG, rudyrockstar@hotmail.com, devon.odell@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <45F041B5.2000300@elischer.org> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hackers User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:09:20 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: harddrive no memory ---FreeBSD scenario X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@elischer.org, m@FreeBSD.ORG, rudyrockstar@hotmail.com, devon.odell@gmail.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:09:30 -0000 Julian Elischer wrote: > Markus Boelter wrote: > > > > > Apart from wondering how you're getting the motherboard to get past > > > POST without RAM, I'm wondering how you'd get the bootloader and > > > > > [...] > > > > The guys at Linux/OpenBIOS did some Cache-as-RAM stuff. Maybe you can > > also put (burn) the kernel directly into the BIOS chip and bott with > > that kernel. This is just an idea out of my head - nothing tested and no > > research done in this field. :-) > > A modern CPU with 4Mb of cache and no ram has more ram than my first system. > If you wanted to you might be able to get FreeBSD 1.1 up in such an > environment. I had FreeBSD 2.2-stable installed on an old notebook with 4 MB RAM (actually less, because ~ 0.5 MB was lost VGA mappings and registers etc.). It was very usable for simple things like text editing and as a terminal. > (Just no DMA capability, so no floppies). You can access the FDC in PIO mode, no DMA necessary. It won't be very efficient, but a floppy drive is slow anyway. You'll have to access the hard disk in PIO mode, too, so that will also be slow. You'll probably want to avoid swapping / paging at all. That means that your whole working set has to fit in 4 MB (minus what the kernel needs). That'll probably be difficult, depending on what you're planning to use the machine for. Bottom line: I think it's useless. :-) It makes more sense to eliminate the hard disk instead of the RAM. And running diskless is perfectly possible (and quite easy) with FreeBSD; I've done such setups in the past. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution." -- Robert Sewell