From owner-freebsd-current Sun Dec 27 18:10:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07977 for freebsd-current-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:10:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07958 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:10:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA26220; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:39:46 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA29841; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:39:48 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981228123948.D12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:39:48 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith , Christian Kuhtz Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: Thanks, Core Team References: <19981227205032.J1333@ns1.adsu.bellsouth.com> <199812280154.RAA06527@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199812280154.RAA06527@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 05:54:02PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 17:54:02 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 05:45:37PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>>> 1. LKMs are gone. >>>> 2. This was decided by the core team. >>>> 3. Nobody else was informed. >>> >>> Actually, while some of the recent events came as much as a surprise >>> to core as anyone else, the transition from LKMs to KLD modules is not >>> and should not come as a surprise to anyone. We've been talking about >>> it for ages now in -current and the only way you could possibly fail >>> to be informed about this transition would be if you had simply >>> deleted every mail received from -current for at least the last 3 >>> months. >> >> And three months is considered to be a suitable transition period? With all >> due respect, give me a break. *hrmph* > > This was discussed at length for some time; and in Greg's case as one > of the LKM-laggers we've been trying to encourage him to switch for > some time, and that was in fact on the agenda before the jackboots > arrived. Now so far the discussion has been reasonable. But this is utter bullshit. Nobody has given me any warning that there was any pressing need to change. I keep all these messages, and what I have is: 15 August: You tell me that 3.0 will be using kld instead of lkm. 2 October: You send me an example. 9 October: Peter tells me (copying -current) that the code and tools are incomplete. Round the same time, he committed a number of fixes, but there was nothing to indicate that klds were ready for prime time. 2 December: You send a message, not copying me, explaining some details of how to perform the conversion to klds. No mention of urgency. And that's it. Do you have anything I've missed? Sure, I knew it was on the agenda, and if you had told me even three weeks ago, I wouldn't have complained. But it's not reasonable to wake up one morning and find LKMs dead and Vinum gone from the repository. > Three months is actually not at all unreasonable, especially given how > trivial the actual code changes required are. > >> If the old facility still works, why not leave both enabled? > > Because LKMs don't work for ELF kernels, and we should be making the > ELF kernel cutover before we branch. Which IIRC was slated for mid-January, as Jordan warned us (see, Jordan, I *do* read these things). > Again, this is something that should have been understood by the > folks following -current, although we haven't necessarily been > making enough loud noise about it to keep it a constant discussion > topic. Let me rephrase that: although we forgot to tell people that things were going to go away, and just removed them. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message