From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 17 16:23:06 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61F9C96F for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:23:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm29-vm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm29-vm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0193B971 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:23:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.215.143] by nm29.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2014 16:22:58 -0000 Received: from [68.142.230.65] by tm14.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2014 16:22:58 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp222.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2014 16:22:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1395073378; bh=fPdJCkenlB+cf5+RqNbB8n8BSzHn/kQE6Pq/F6eJXn4=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:References:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Cc:X-Mailer:From:Subject:Date:To; b=lAYCZApLVSgUq7yNFLPhbSEd5J0zrl0ccdi63ddivlLtV/3O4FxtghxZ620Eqr/0dAQYxwD6QQD5DQHYzd2+C9zjk3G9YFwNeZcjy0tT2eghRw5coNjbqPvapAwb3Z1fhPYpl3EO4tZgqoIxCI+1c9inSmnG9wK8lZvrTNXEVxk= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 473740.20435.bm@smtp222.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: Xq5yszcVM1kkbeazd.a0rrAmma8GL0FBCAG7D.oKP3tYo_U S5xAF8gGJTxfKFfal.4_J6YJhq8.dzF3E3RRCL4r8EG8194cJ7xM0PADujbq C5F.ifI.HKAp_kuxAz64rrYVrhpW_1vsm_wuY7Ou9LKXYBuZAUPEKqtIogHO 3Uz4gz.mx7jC71XY3vqjyttWdCDid8WK2ofK3zITzeJZjoS22gqS2y5On5.Q MTwU_LneWjg1EP_iuhbx7GYff0ENt.efwUNwJyXRwjwrxwchpDY5NyGqhSj7 G6BkdK5O.0Nh_mdHPbHrJuoMpja1_BIziaMSVoHEGKllPB1XpClun9bPtIdr Zn9xK22PB1X9iTEwJ0TViLZLQ1Tx_JiNoQ55dJDt6w9F0WOeHU8MvTFMo4Tm CYMDmZNUvLgFiJaWqpQsnJI7llF8nGkKpKfyusCPTOZwXHB6KSDpjJl5Rj0U 92zllMjnXKAxBRxvcsD7mYlvsaSzHSc3Ux7Y7h.0A5PBKOPVnE1iDVTwzPLX j0VlUjq0sSld1juMUdPKg X-Yahoo-SMTP: LAFNfTaswBDguI7meB90l2l3wOU- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.147.101.71] (free7by@117.136.24.130 with xymcookie [106.10.149.123]) by smtp222.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2014 16:22:58 +0000 UTC References: <20140317103830.53c42ade@X220.alogt.com> <611B8DE5-F593-4574-96AB-0965CA7EDF33@yahoo.com> <5326D093.90308@yahoo.com> <39562806-80F4-4D4C-BAFD-20DCB537B303@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <39562806-80F4-4D4C-BAFD-20DCB537B303@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D169) From: by Subject: Re: Something related to C and C++ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 00:22:48 +0800 To: Johan Bucht Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:23:06 -0000 By the way, who knows how to improve C skills? Cause I am a newbie, and I am= reading the book <> But I plan read it a little everyday, so any other methods? - by > On Mar 18, 2014, at 0:15, by wrote: >=20 > I totally agree with you! > Actually, now I prefer the domain which is not too low but not too high ne= ither, in a word, I think being a system programmer should be cool. >=20 > - by >=20 >> On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:22, Johan Bucht wrote: >>=20 >> As there are different strengths and weaknesses resulting from the design= decisions chosen for the different languages, learn as many different types= as you can and experience how they shape solutions to problems in different= ways and how you reason about them. >>=20 >> "I have never met anybody who has changed their reasoning first and their= habits second. You change your habits first." >>=20 >> The end goal is to solve problems in your domain, having a languages that= maps perfectly to that domain (or makes it easy to create domain specific l= anguages in) will certainly make it easier to read and write that code. But i= s it worth creating and maintaining that language for a small domain and tra= in people in it? General purpose languages exists because of this. They migh= t not map perfectly to the domain, but they have familiarity and cross breed= ing between users in different domains. >> Some languages are really small with little functionality included in the= standard library, others are huge and contain a lot of seldom used function= ality. For the small languages you might need to write common functionality y= ourself or find something someone else has written. For large languages you g= et that for free and most users will use what's provided. You get a standard= way of solving problems, but the tools might not be best of breed or suit y= our specific use case. >>=20 >> /Johan >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:38 AM, by wrote: >>> Yes, you are right, i have some prejudice for C++ before, but now, i thi= nk i won't, cause if i have not deeply working for some languages, technolog= ies, i have no right to judge it, i need more and more practice : ) >>> Different fields got different technologies, the only key i think is tha= t which field you prefer, and what kind of technology you prefer. >>>=20 >>> - by >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 2014/3/17 17:14, Johan Bucht wrote: >>>> Working in higher level languages like Java, Ruby, Python and C++ does h= ave >>>> some advantages to C and some disadvantages. There are always trade off= s >>>> and there will always be languages closer to the domain that will be mo= re >>>> elegant to solve specific problems. >>>> If you're mainly doing programming close to the hardware the abstractio= ns >>>> from those higher level languages doesn't add much value and the runtim= e >>>> with garbage collection and more is something you probably need to be a= ble >>>> to turn off. >>>> It's of course possible to implement a lot of the features in higher le= vel >>>> languages in lower level ones, but the syntax will not be that suitable= for >>>> it and you need to impose restrictions on yourself instead of the langu= age >>>> doing it for you. >>>> For some tasks C is too high level and Assembler is needed but for most= of >>>> the tasks any language will do and it's a matter of personal taste. >>>>=20 >>>> /Johan >>>>=20 >>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:50 AM, by wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Well, I think C++'s popular has something related to C's popular use, b= ut >>>>> it contains too much, I prefer simple tool, do one thing, and do it we= ll, >>>>> no more extras, and build a system with their combinations, at least t= he >>>>> base system. >>>>>=20 >>>>> - by >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:38, Erich Dollansky wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:20:55 +0800 >>>>>> by wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> as C++ is C plus 'some' extras, just start with C. When you know C - >>>>>> which you have to know anyway to write C++ programs - you can add C++= >>>>>> to your knowledge. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Never forget that object orientated programming is much older than C+= + >>>>>> and can be done in most languages. I did my first steps in object >>>>>> orientated programming in 8080 assembler without even knowing that >>>>>> what I did will be later be known as object orientated programming. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The little programming I still do is all done in C but using some of >>>>>> the 'addons' of C++. So, all my sources are .cpp files. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Erich >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> At first, I would say, I do not want to lead to a holy war between >>>>>>> programming languages, and I am a newbie in this field, but I am >>>>>>> confused about this, so I want get some answers or discusses from >>>>>>> here to help me thinking about this. I found that in IT industry, C+= + >>>>>>> has more and more users, I can understand why they do this, C++ can >>>>>>> make them build system more easy than C does. okay, I just know a >>>>>>> little about C++, but in my feeling, C++ can make you do things in a= >>>>>>> higher place. Yes, C++ is great, but for me, it is too difficult, or= >>>>>>> I would say, it is too complicated. I got two books in my hand, one >>>>>>> is <>, another is <>>>>>> Language>>. Just consider from the weight : ) You can find something= . >>>>>>> Language>>In the past, GCC use C, but now it turn to C++, and LLVM i= s >>>>>>> Language>>written by C++. Yes I prefer C now, and you may say, you >>>>>>> Language>>have not use these two languages deeply, how could you >>>>>>> Language>>judge them? Yes, I know I should not judge them, but as a >>>>>>> Language>>newbie, this is my very feeling, just like a kid first >>>>>>> Language>>looking at this world! Simple, but confused. At last, I am= >>>>>>> Language>>not lead to a holy war between programming languages, I >>>>>>> Language>>just confused and want some related answers. This is it. := ) >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> - by >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>>>>> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.= org" >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"=