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Date:      Fri, 14 May 1999 22:50:01 +0200
From:      Harold Gutch <logix@foobar.franken.de>
To:        Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, Matthew Dillon <dillon@apollo.backplane.com>
Cc:        Jared Mauch <jared@puck.Nether.net>, Thamer Al-Herbish <shadows@whitefang.com>, security@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Forwarded from BUGTRAQ: SYN floods against FreeBSD
Message-ID:  <19990514225001.A22317@foobar.franken.de>
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.37.19990514133829.0461e220@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 02:05:51PM -0600
References:  <199905140438.VAA97604@apollo.backplane.com> <Pine.BSF.4.05.9905131824250.267-100000@rage.whitefang.com> <4.2.0.37.19990513161529.00c1e3f0@localhost> <Pine.BSF.4.05.9905131824250.267-100000@rage.whitefang.com> <4.2.0.37.19990513202450.0444fca0@localhost> <199905140438.VAA97604@apollo.backplane.com> <19990514072546.A20779@foobar.franken.de> <4.2.0.37.19990514133829.0461e220@localhost>

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On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 02:05:51PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote:
> Any technique that requires the originator to receive your
> SYN-ACK and generate a specific response before you commit
> resources is acceptable. Heck, you don't even really need
> a cryptographically strong hash for this. Is Linux really
> doing one MD5 per SYN? If so, I can think of a few other 
> techniques that would give us a speed advantage. We'd be 
> able to beat them in the benchmarks while still providing 
> good protection against SYN flooding.
> 
Ah, that's a very good point, I never thought of the
speed-question.

> One question about "the Linux way of doing it" as described
> below. What happens if the secret just happens to be modified
> right after the SYN-ACK? Could be you'd drop a connection or
> two that was legitimate. Seems like you'd need to test against
> an old AND a new secret to avoid the race condition, especially
> in the presence of congestion.
> 
Yes, I'd guess so - I haven't had a look at the code itself, so I
don't know wether this is actually done, but I'd guess so.

> One more point. According to the original BUGTRAQ message,
> a cleanup routine is causing problems when the system is
> under heavy load. At first glance, this looks like a
> consistency problem; the code may be traversing a data structure 
> that changes out from under it. We need to fix this regardless
> of how we handle SYN floods.
> 
This is certainly true, I have no idea why the subject of this
thread changed to "How to handle SYN floods" this quickly.
I just happen to have read the Linux mailinglist-archives about
"their" way to handly SYN-floods only a few weeks ago, found it
fairly interesting, so I wondered if there were any actual
negative points about it.

But you are right - back to the original topic. I checked my
2.2.8 boxes and flooded them with 1 Million SYN packets taking
about 1 minute, so that's (roughly) 16000 SYNs per second. I did
not manage to kill them with this.

bye,
  Harold

-- 
<Shabby> Sleep is an abstinence syndrome wich occurs due to lack of caffein.
Wed Mar  4 04:53:33 CET 1998   #unix, ircnet


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