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Date:      Wed, 26 May 1999 21:23:23 -0700
From:      Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To:        David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>
Cc:        Graeme Tait <graeme@echidna.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com
Subject:   Re: File system gets too fragmented ???
Message-ID:  <374CC8BB.2F1CF0FB@whistle.com>
References:  <Pine.NEB.3.96.990526225453.15457A-100000@shell-2.enteract.com>

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I missed the original post, so may be mislead....
(The extract below doesn't give all the symptoms)

David Scheidt wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 26 May 1999, Graeme Tait wrote:
> 
> > It contains about 900,000 files, most of which are small, occupying
> > around 2-5 fragments. The small files are updated monthly from a tar
> <snip>
> >
> > However, I don't understand how the FFS works, so I'm just probing and
> > guessing as to what's going on here.
> >
> > Could someone please shed a little light on this? Is FreeBSD not able to
> > self-manage a filesystem operated in this way? Is there some way of
> > preventing the problem, or of periodically cleaning things up (rebuilding
> > the whole filesystem from backup means being down for over an hour on a
> > 24x7 server)?
> 
> The problem you have is that a file on FFS file system can have at most one
> fragmented block.  With the number of small files that you have, it isn't
> terribly suprising that you are running out of full blocks when there is
> still space free on the disk.  I don't think there is a whole lot you can do
> about the problem.  A 1024B frag size might mask the problem of having space
> free, but with no aligned blocks, not allocatable.  You should also think
> hard about why you need a million 1536 byte files on the same filesystem.  I
> don't know what you are doing, but you might consider a real database.
> 
> David Scheidt
> 
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if each file uses 5 frags and there are 8 frags to a block
then there will be only 3-frag long freespace clusters.
thus each file will essentially use 8 frags because 
the other 3 will not be usable by any files you have.

I don't see if you have a 4K or 8K blocksize and what your fragsize is.

let me see.. if you are talking about 512 byte frags, and 4k blocks,
with average files taking 2.5K, then you might consider a 8K
blocksize, as you would on average get 2 files per block, each
of 3 frags (and an ocasional one taking the last 2K)
you might also experiment with 16K/2K

Counter intuitive I know....

As David said.. if we knew more about what you are doing......

Oh yeah...
1 million 3KB files is only 3GB.... an 18GB disk would also solve your
problem :-)

julian


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