From nobody Tue Jan 9 12:16:13 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4T8VKH3w1tz57J73 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 12:16:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert@rrbrussell.com) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4T8VKG2cPnz4pK3 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 12:16:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert@rrbrussell.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rrbrussell.com header.s=fm2 header.b=YmPgcaS2; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=88eo59FT; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=rrbrussell.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of robert@rrbrussell.com designates 66.111.4.26 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=robert@rrbrussell.com Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70AE5C03AD for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 07:16:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap52 ([10.202.2.102]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 09 Jan 2024 07:16:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rrbrussell.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1704802593; x=1704888993; bh=a0Vj9NwYvt ULCu0Ztt6xh2cCd+1pbE3SlQPKfvt6uQg=; b=YmPgcaS2GAhNyBmclOAqbO6zwy cUMoiEVg+5SHGMpBsTNxdCVGJj70mUU3gEw3y2SKFdF+QNhdQ5pNIHCwvM/Hiycd XUtjDsE2l7HsDUqcEc4TlVTWM4tKA6T+d2sNcN1lAoRfymzn8mUGc77TYqp246mL jiL0B00o3kpPjZf3F/UVIBkRE5ONZh+BxbiYNi/89MzVZCA/YGCy9PqeophYp6aJ RkNpr0arxMu8DLZ5DEVooZqF2q/Sw18tuE2PTqCt/kv9F3eBJfqYhEQjJXQJkeFm XBAap1ydn+pfk6YTnBZgOZbHk6GNqfI7vsm9t5Dni0iKyPzWVW8HCQtFZVpQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm2; t=1704802593; x=1704888993; bh=a0Vj9NwYvtULCu0Ztt6xh2cCd+1p bE3SlQPKfvt6uQg=; b=88eo59FTBaiUcQBl70lJjc5mzAlYQp4ziLQQu0nQTWIQ W+S+633YSrEltM7v1p5QymJZBC9i0ZA1Hqa/MIB8FdB7xiR7/ufSHaEsRq2fHBjh FUR54q8lQbtCd0Uq5uXggbYQhsIaubLP4oAzsoAYQKDBRAUJfsldG1eS1zjtHbxy pt2HawYptDdrJjcJVKm5jjNmDMNGzQ64WT4x3xoRdfrz2HKsvhoKFkYwIijNLbiz CnspHhB3hJmbzFlxt0CGp743z7eLGkoFEGeZONGwmTBeNQ/5HtwPF+w1ienmiFYc RngMVDS9cEC3i5dRuYm6dZMHsO0uC4v5oQNret0gMA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdehledgfeeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttd ertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpehrohgsvghrthesrhhrsghruhhsshgvlhhlrdgtohhmnecu ggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepkefhffevveeugfetteegueegledviedvffevvddtieehvdekke elvefhhfevgedtnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhf rhhomheprhhosggvrhhtsehrrhgsrhhushhsvghllhdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ie421460a:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8BA36C60091; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 07:16:33 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-1364-ga51d5fd3b7-fm-20231219.001-ga51d5fd3 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <5f370bce-bcdb-47ea-aaa7-551ee092a7d3@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <2eabfb91-afc3-47f7-98b9-1a1791ae6e7d@app.fastmail.com> <6714298.qJWK8QVVMX@ravel> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2024 06:16:13 -0600 From: robert@rrbrussell.com To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.19 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.997]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rrbrussell.com,quarantine]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:66.111.4.26]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rrbrussell.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[66.111.4.26:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[66.111.4.26:from]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[robert]; ASN(0.00)[asn:19151, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rrbrussell.com:+,messagingengine.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4T8VKG2cPnz4pK3 On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, at 05:13, void wrote: > On Tue, Jan 09, 2024 at 09:47:59AM +0100, Olivier Certner wrote:i > >> So, to me, at this point, it still sounds more than a gimmick >> than something really useful. If someone has a precise use case >> for it and motivation, than of course please go ahead. > > The only use-cases I [1] can think of are either with an email system > that needs it or with something like a webserver where there's > a team of devops working on the web service who need elevated access > and a couple of sysadmins who need root for their general job, and audit > or similar is used to log these accesses. > > But maybe there are more use-cases for atime? > > but as has been mentioned, most modern mail systems don't need it > and I'm not sure how much something like audit would. Do things > like tripwire/mtree need it? It's an interesting question. No, they use other data and checksums instead of access times. > > [1] in my limited experience. i've only seen email "needing" it > and that's only in some contexts > --