From nobody Wed Nov 15 16:39:39 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SVpmF4LSPz50Tfg; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:39:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SVpmF2n1xz3Zy5; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:39:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1700066381; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=hVXpbp1vUeVAkC/E+/QE+QVp17+SylL5fR/o6A07Mao=; b=uQnXS7S8XklGRxHmamoUCiM4L48GKcVSuL8rVLs3+LtTXmblZD5e70mIhbiFDeoPhJfpP4 xwesWgv7ZEo9MElKg1kcYTQ4FRbJ/28BD78GprOzgycl47GqKtKVnmOR/tA6njSwJ3p/Gd c/kU4h6MY04Oisdf/D5hp0l5vFzyXgzwxax8ZSAHQKRbQUGSqjsaXL8SWn6ybnxskqYcAy RvD6I0yiBuIqTDfAIfbMIsoxyoCWTY15l/PU3j+5A31iyuoaKRQ+vX0FTQH9iuc9Qv3d7n RKsjzIrrGTaCONNYWoq1o1cWXfU9aFaL1crFoo16f9XG0mB73cJ3gbxkobE3aA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1700066381; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=hVXpbp1vUeVAkC/E+/QE+QVp17+SylL5fR/o6A07Mao=; b=hgjCLrfx21TYeBjaet+Ypn4yOpBwEFovvn04kUQMY8jleyDigRFrbKb/lLw1GvtDti8QLW v8ymEyiP8wLzviFBE3vMszopO+4IFTrqTpNt2EQcDaq4lI0ds2IPUqOP6XizoJeUUPyRsu uRiPkCXK5kPthQzYzC4U5mu5fujWnx/g/ewxtcrTTDjdEeyaU/8+pKPwpRMaH4zsLZ7oo5 LJk6YVVHJ9BN7MjtbEn+2UoXhwQp+yBL9h48dlt+skHYz/maHOqBzHEI+v3YLYLJc6eX6a NFlumBaEXKsPoRIb1Df60yLdZXxFO8rsHWIYveDoWXdHn/k9IJI7T38WZUfN5Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1700066381; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=VHbGbzkTF1cH47ZdogjftyzaRgpL8Thy3N4YIwZ+TltkmBg5y3GGoalBdtKf4l5nREeCao QQwoAgqZt2PSA7a6pnArl5IAKZIocAgMVZsPExeDDs6YcYGQgM0DWRyE+VBSr0j+1UAXd7 SiXDkPZHN6nBMs8pFIg/XYQ6BlAliapDNdrMng8GO9roamrmOFdCcXpTcYTJacMYC6zmcV 4R4YLIOOHwg7tr4CuS3VCL/JCTlFh7EZKPzSkzihMVy4mH6ExPvHqPfMKRoR/qWQGf05N2 2cZwf/MdO2QYxwdZn+C5w2b4qdp+BYSEHs+KPFVm6xoIjfWRPWDqJREMFfZcbQ== Received: from [IPV6:2601:648:8384:fd00:7c48:55a7:81e0:3a0a] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8384:fd00:7c48:55a7:81e0:3a0a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4SVpmD5GGwz3sw; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:39:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 08:39:39 -0800 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] Quick update to 14.0-RELEASE schedule Content-Language: en-US To: Glen Barber , The Doctor Cc: FreeBSD Release Engineering Team , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <20231114203654.GB52320@FreeBSD.org> <20231115022701.GM1307@FreeBSD.org> <20231115045231.GN1307@FreeBSD.org> From: John Baldwin In-Reply-To: <20231115045231.GN1307@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11/14/23 8:52 PM, Glen Barber wrote: > On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 08:10:23PM -0700, The Doctor wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 02:27:01AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 05:15:48PM -0700, The Doctor wrote: >>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 08:36:54PM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: >>>>> We are still waiting for a few (non-critical) things to complete before >>>>> the announcement of 14.0-RELEASE will be ready. >>>>> >>>>> It should only be another day or so before these things complete. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your understanding. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I always just installed my copy. >>>> >>> >>> Ok. I do not know what exactly is your point, but releases are never >>> official until there is a PGP-signed email sent. The email is intended >>> for the general public of consumers of official releases, not "yeah, >>> but"s. >>> >> >> Howver if you do a freebsd-update upgrade, you can upgrade. >> >> Is that suppose to happen? >> > > That does not say that the freebsd-update bits will not change *until* > the official release announcement has been sent. > > In my past 15 years involved in the Project, I think we have been very > clear on that. > > A RELEASE IS NOT FINAL UNTIL THE PGP-SIGNED ANNOUNCEMENT IS SENT. > > I mean, c'mon, dude. > > We really, seriously, for all intents and purposes, cannot be any more > clear than that. > > So, yes, *IF* an update necessitates a new freebsd-update build, what > you are running is *NOT* official. > > For at least 15 years, we have all said the same entire thing. Yes, but, if at this point we had to rebuild, it would have to be 14.0.1 or something (which we have done a few times in the past). It would be too confusing otherwise once the bits are built and published (where published means "uploaded to our CDN"). It is the 14.0 release bits, the only question is if for some reason we had a dire emergency that meant we had to pull it at the last minute and publish different bits (under a different release name). Realistically, once the bits are available, we can't prevent people from using them, it's just at their own risk to do so until the project says "yes, we believe these are good". Granted, they are under the same risk if they are still running the last RC. The best way to minimize that risk going forward is to add more automation of testing/CI to go along with the process of building release bits so that the build artifacts from the release build run through CI and are only published if the CI is green as that would give us greater confidence of "we believe these are good" before they are uploaded for publishing. -- John Baldwin