From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 29 19:38:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEE016A4CE; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:38:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from odot.okladot.state.ok.us (odot.okladot.state.ok.us [192.149.244.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CACD43D2D; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:38:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from root@techpc04.okladot.state.ok.us) Received: from notes9c.okladot.state.ok.us (notes9c.okladot.state.ok.us [10.36.36.31])OAA26850; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:38:04 -0500 Received: from isdmon2.okladot.state.ok.us ([192.149.244.24]) by notes9c.okladot.state.ok.us (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.1) with ESMTP id 2004072914382592-144002 ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:38:25 -0500 Received: from techpc04.okladot.state.ok.us (techpc04.okladot.state.ok.us [199.27.9.37])i6TJbU10059787; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:37:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from root@techpc04.okladot.state.ok.us) Received: by techpc04.okladot.state.ok.us (Postfix, from userid 0) id E8CC95C11; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:37:24 -0500 (CDT) To: Dan Nelson In-Reply-To: <20040729174420.GA9911@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20040729144205.6ABEF5CA2@techpc04.okladot.state.ok.us><20040729164738.523C85CA2@techpc04.okladot.state.ok.us><20040729174420.GA9911@dan.emsphone.com> From: "Paul Seniura" Errors-To: "Paul Seniura" Sender: "Paul Seniura" Message-Id: <20040729193724.E8CC95C11@techpc04.okladot.state.ok.us> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:37:24 -0500 (CDT) X-ODOT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the Help Desk for more information X-ODOT-MailScanner: This E-mail appears not to contain malware. X-ODOT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (score=-16.4, required 5, BAYES_20 -3.10, EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION -6.50, IN_REP_TO -3.20, J_CHICKENPOX_12 1.00, J_CHICKENPOX_13 1.00, J_CHICKENPOX_51 1.00, J_CHICKENPOX_53 1.00, J_CHICKENPOX_62 1.00, J_CHICKENPOX_65 1.00, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT -3.20, RCVD_IN_ORBS 0.12, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES -6.50) X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on Notes9c/ODOT(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 07/29/2004 02:38:25 PM,at 07/29/2004 02:38:26 PM, Serialize complete at 07/29/2004 02:38:26 PM cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long Subject: Re: about the gcc 3.4.x problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Paul Seniura List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:38:23 -0000 Dan Nelson said: >In the last episode (Jul 29), Paul Seniura said: >> Scott Long wrote: >> > -Os has never been a supported option for compiling the system on FreeBSD. >> > There is an effort to make -O2 work, but that is also not officially >> > supported yet. Many of the problems are due to FreeBSD code, of course, >> > but this is a long standing issue and has little bearing on the success >> > of the gcc 3.4 import. >> >> Okay I am also on record here about the -Os being the DEFAULT SETTING on >> Apple's XCode "deployment" environment. It _needs_ to be supported. (I'm >> wondering just how much history y'all have >And that's not a problem. There there are just X thousand lines of code in >/usr/src that have never been tested with -Os. That's the only reason that >-Os and -O2 are not "officially" supported. I have built worlds using -O2 >with absolutely no problems for a few years. That may just be that I'm not >using the programs that have bugs uncovered by -O2 (a libalias bug only seen >under -O2 was recently fixed, I believe). Build with -Os, and if you find >bugs, send-pr them. I've been building kernel+world and most apps with -Os and the -Current system gcc for many months and continuing even today (if/when I can kick off another system build, too). After backing off the tests with lang/gcc34, we discovered a bug with system gcc -Os and XFree86 libs. I have a CFLAGS+=-O2 override in that Makefile now. ;) I'd mentioned in April that lang/gcc34 had known problems with -Os i.e. known by the GCC team themselves, and provided a URL to that discussion on their website. I won't file a PR on a known bug like that. I wait 'til we get the fix, and in that msg thread I was asking for a new snapshot with the fix once it's available and when time allowed. Yesterday right here on this list someone said he hit a -Os bug after he'd CVSup'd and used the new system gcc. So my mind is going "oh no here we go again... it should've been fixed." That earlier point-release of lang/gcc34 went final, but we never got a final version of it. -Os was a hot item at the GCC site such that it should've been fixed on that final point-release (3.4.1 IIRC). Instead our lang/gcc34 port today is _another_ later point- release snaphot (3.4.2). BTW I can't start building kernel+world just yet to see what the new system gcc says. Now today I am completely perplexed: did the GCC team actually ever fix that known bug, do _we_ have that fix in any of the three gcc (system & two ports), or did the "FreeBSD system gcc custom patches" break it? It's making me paranoid, not being able to trust our most basic tools. I'm so nervous this time 'round that I'm doing full system backups before even starting the buildworld. ;) I've sweated thru a lot of -Current changes since last October, but this one really has me worried. Not that it might break, but that we had actively tried to test it way in advance, and be seemingly ignored in our reports here, because yesterday's post mentioned hitting a -Os bug again after CVSup'ing the new gcc. "Oh no here we go again..." >> >> Here, then, is a point I need to make: >> >> >> >> Why is Apple seemingly skipping GCC 3.4.x altogether? >> > >> > So is there a conspiracy against gcc 3.4 that we don't know about? Do >> > you have information that could help us here? Or maybe Apple is just >> > being prudent and targeting XCode and GCC releases to somewhat coincide. >> > That seems to satisfy occums razor a whole lot easier. >> >> I said "seemingly". >> It makes sense to me.[tm] >> It is something to think about. > >I also suspect it's just a timing thing. Apple is intensly interested in >precompiled headers and other compiler speedups because their system uses a >lots of complex templates. 3.5 is supposed to be the "go-faster" release. Yes Apple did say Tiger will be available in the first half of next year. They got 11 more months. ;) The speedups were felt everywhere when upgrading from Jaguar to Panther. I'm on record here surmizing part of the speedup could be due to -Os, as that will tighten loops to fit inside L1/L2 caches (G4 Sawtooth at home). -Os definitely helps this puny pentium2, too, more than -O2. For other apps esp. mplayer, I will make sure they get -O3 and the -f tweaks. Both here & at home. Can't wait to try the new -Current system gcc. ;) >> Have you searched the mail archives here to find out what's >> been said during the past few months? Again I'm sure some >> of us including myself have mentioned the -fformat-extensions >> problem at several points. Having most modules linked with >> libstdc(++) in the i386-portbld-freebsd5.2 subdir is not too >> kosher, too. I mentioned all kinds of things like that. > >In general, C++ object files are not portable across different gcc releases, >since they fix ABI bugs in every release. Code built with 3.4 may not link >to an old 3.3 libstdc++, thus the dependency on the port's own libstdc++. I >don't see a problem here. Might want to look again at my tests back then. I'd mentioned having to do something to make the loader find those libs because e.g. i386-portbld-freebsd5.2 is not in the regular search path. Mind you I was building kernel & world with those lang/gcc* ports, not just any ol' app. ;) IIRC many things started by /etc/rc.d bombed until we got that subdir into the ldconfig_paths. Oh tcsh bombed as well as simple cmds like 'ls' IIRC, too. Fortunately the kernel and modules are built 'standalone'. As for ldconfig_paths, you should see the long string in my rc.conf file now, paranoia will do that. ;) >-- > Dan Nelson > dnelson@allantgroup.com -- thx, Paul Seniura.