From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 15 22:16:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B56816A47C for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:16:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-46.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-46.bluehost.com [69.89.18.15]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 37F7513C45A for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:16:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 2393 invoked by uid 0); 15 Nov 2007 22:16:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2007 22:16:04 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1Isn0G-0005VW-La for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:16:04 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lAFMGd4s076643 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:16:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lAFMGcKb076642 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:16:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:16:38 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: FreeBSD Questions Message-ID: <20071115221638.GC76155@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Questions References: <20071112183502.438b44b8@gumby.homeunix.com.> <4738A71A.6060100@chuckr.org> <4738ACDD.50108@u.washington.edu> <4738ADC8.2060005@gmx.de> <4738AEBF.4010109@u.washington.edu> <4738C145.2050601@chuckr.org> <20071112214240.5d3b048a@gumby.homeunix.com.> <4738FC8B.5000309@chuckr.org> <20071114230723.GD70122@demeter.hydra> <473CAD52.6060309@chuckr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <473CAD52.6060309@chuckr.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [737 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: Ports with GUI configs X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:16:05 -0000 On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 03:34:26PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > Chad Perrin wrote: > >On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 08:23:23PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > >>This makes a little file of descriptor words, but it's not set so a > >>regular editor can manipulate it; the special ports program is needed to > >>set or reset this list. All ports query this list in making the > >>decision as to whether or whether not to include a particular port as a > >>dependency. > > > >Ugh. As far as I'm concerned, everything that pertains to system > >configuration should always be human-readable and editable without > >special tools. Trying to insulate things from human ability to directly > >manipulate them tends to lead to rapidly increasing difficulty of > >debugging configurations. > > I might have agreed with this, except, I have lived for a good while > with the Gentoo "USE" lists, and I can tell you that having insufficent > control over what goes ontp those lists causes havoc both with the users > trying to select the proper wording of the lists, and the programmers > trying to decide how to have a particular USE keyword represent a > particular ports usage. You have to make certain that both users and > programmers have a definite, firm meaning in mind when they use the > keywords, because (in another's well chosen words) if you don't, USE > lists are a PITA. It takes firmer control of meaning to make certain > that the list doesn't devolve into that. > > This is actual experience talking, in this case. I don't see how that translates into "the user should not be allowed to view what's going on behind the scenes in a text editor if (s)he wants to." -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] W. Somerset Maugham: "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit."