Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:24:39 -0400 From: Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SD card corruption Message-ID: <811be6b2-e94a-5143-cd37-f5af4ed7fcda@denninger.net> In-Reply-To: <028a3f80-4d90-3368-6f51-ab8f77c56154@sentex.net> References: <709521ba-5719-5f80-10bf-1de05d99d5c1@sentex.net> <C5FCB5FC-26A3-4DE1-A753-36A61FFC6E7D@gid.co.uk> <028a3f80-4d90-3368-6f51-ab8f77c56154@sentex.net>
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010406030800050500060209 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------swXlFisRyHaczHYiAv9YHTkE" --------------swXlFisRyHaczHYiAv9YHTkE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/13/2023 15:12, mike tancsa wrote: > On 7/13/2023 3:02 PM, Bob Bishop wrote: >> >> What’s the environment like? SD cards really don’t like being run hot >> for instance. Are there radios or other electrical noise nearby? > > Its a messy retail environment, but not too hot. The design of the > APUs have excellent passive cooling and I monitor the CPU temp at a > few hundred sites and have a good baseline. There is very little > variation and failures dont seem to correlate with the few hot > outliers. CPU is usually around 50C. > (https://www.pcengines.ch/apucool.htm). The recent fail site the > weekly avg was 49.9C with almost no variation / spikes > > Could exposure to a burst of intense em scramble the SD card ? I > would think other devices would be impacted if that were the case. > Whats odd is that I am testing one of the returned cards right now. I > wiped it, filled it with 15GB of a few random files and am > continuously checksuming the files and they are fine. I would think > that if the SD card failed, it would continue to fail. Hence, I am > just trying to better understand what causes this. The SD card > hardware layer is all "black box" to me > I have a decent number of these (and this type of config, on pcEngines machines, in the field) and have yet to see this specific sort of failure. Typically when I see SDs fail they go write-locked AND corrupted -- and are unrecoverable. This sounds like a bug in the on-SD-card firmware that is scrambling the allocation table. That's nasty and its also likely out of your control. The only thing I can come up with that might contribute to it would be unstable power. -- Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------swXlFisRyHaczHYiAv9YHTkE Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/13/2023 15:12, mike tancsa wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:028a3f80-4d90-3368-6f51-ab8f77c56154@sentex.net">On 7/13/2023 3:02 PM, Bob Bishop wrote: <br> <blockquote type="cite"> <br> What’s the environment like? SD cards really don’t like being run hot for instance. Are there radios or other electrical noise nearby? <br> </blockquote> <br> Its a messy retail environment, but not too hot. The design of the APUs have excellent passive cooling and I monitor the CPU temp at a few hundred sites and have a good baseline. There is very little variation and failures dont seem to correlate with the few hot outliers. CPU is usually around 50C. (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.pcengines.ch/apucool.htm">https://www.pcengines.ch/apucool.htm</a>). The recent fail site the weekly avg was 49.9C with almost no variation / spikes <br> <br> Could exposure to a burst of intense em scramble the SD card ? I would think other devices would be impacted if that were the case. Whats odd is that I am testing one of the returned cards right now. I wiped it, filled it with 15GB of a few random files and am continuously checksuming the files and they are fine. I would think that if the SD card failed, it would continue to fail. Hence, I am just trying to better understand what causes this. The SD card hardware layer is all "black box" to me <br> <br> </blockquote> <p>I have a decent number of these (and this type of config, on pcEngines machines, in the field) and have yet to see this specific sort of failure. Typically when I see SDs fail they go write-locked AND corrupted -- and are unrecoverable.</p> <p>This sounds like a bug in the on-SD-card firmware that is scrambling the allocation table. That's nasty and its also likely out of your control. The only thing I can come up with that might contribute to it would be unstable power.<br> </p> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> Karl Denninger<br> <a href="mailto:karl@denninger.net" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">karl@denninger.net</a><br> <i>The Market Ticker</i><br> <font size="-2"><i>[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]</i></font></div> </body> </html> --------------swXlFisRyHaczHYiAv9YHTkE-- --------------ms010406030800050500060209 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC DbowggagMIIEiKADAgECAhMA5EiKghDOXrvfxYxjITXYDdhIMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGL MQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEQMA4GA1UECAwHRmxvcmlkYTESMBAGA1UEBwwJTmljZXZpbGxlMRkw FwYDVQQKDBBDdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgTExDMRgwFgYDVQQLDA9DdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgQ0ExITAf 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