From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 19 11:26:51 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CCB4E6E for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 11:26:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-x232.google.com (mail-wi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 202731BDC for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 11:26:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wichy4 with SMTP id hy4so18142736wic.1 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 04:26:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=OGB4nWP1kCV9mLyuYBKoFldBFLFYRCYwA1sCd5QwWIk=; b=AG6KGQAhCEY/4/g0mKNWOS0ohOU1btEo38u8gnNUByQDOvSIEBO2mMUGlGaihf3jga R8UBTSmh3yo2lK2tjauKpWzN4Pa9PEXd5SIH8H5sXKV94KTpD2ALzk0YF25HO+keDUNM ImCCGPUVJ5zd5qfXAtV02+55ZoSwN9Dvn2nEZQ8CKURl285gl4cfyvIV5nUDT/KIMlgs CzoucrL210gScL6RqE593HRtDnay2dB4MsQkK8cD/bQFH3tG9tS8O7zaMVj8BQtXn3q1 Cd5Qcrzcq2mOFfHv5QnFLPaVrMBedNSXB6LvfkYc37eiBFRz/B7d7UmQlW1SlWmsrRYz 40jA== X-Received: by 10.194.205.225 with SMTP id lj1mr53832573wjc.138.1432034809125; Tue, 19 May 2015 04:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id i6sm21347974wjf.29.2015.05.19.04.26.47 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 May 2015 04:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 13:26:46 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] Replace gnu groff in base by heirloom doctools Message-ID: <20150519112644.GB52236@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <20150514000211.GA9410@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <201505152342.t4FNgRgq076946@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pvezYHf7grwyp3Bc" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201505152342.t4FNgRgq076946@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 11:26:51 -0000 --pvezYHf7grwyp3Bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 01:42:26AM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi Bapt & current@ >=20 > > I think keeping a fully functionnal roff(7) toolchain part of the > > base system is very good on a unix. >=20 > Yes, Unix has always also been a tool to get jobs done (aka PWB), > as well as merely recompile more Unix. Ditto FreeBSD. =20 >=20 >=20 > > From what I could check I cannot find any regression when migrating fro= m gnu > > groff to heirloom doctools, if there is a particular area when you thin= k extra > > care is needed please share it. > >=20 > > Heirloom doctools: https://github.com/n-t-roff/heirloom-doctools >=20 >=20 > Regression tests that use public BSD source & data to build more > BSD are a good start, but just a start, insufficient to discover > all problems. There's non public user data sets to consider. >=20 > Many users won't read current@, just announce@, so before removal > hits a Release, we need a one Release warning, ie "This is the last > Release before old functionality goes. >=20 > Assume lots of user data will Not be compatible with heirloom-doctools > & users wont know to start checking their data, until they see an > announcement in the next Release. Those users would be able to use groff from ports and then have the benefit= of a more up to date version of groff and a groff with more functionnality than = the castrated version we do have in base while compatible. >=20 > We'll need a copy of same version of existing tools, macros etc, copied o= ut > unchanged to a port or meta port so users affected have a lifeboat. groff is already in ports. >=20 > User data Will break: (My groff usage frequently broke when groff > changed: I use groff for CV, business card, letters, invoices, & > personal, with embedded pics, scaled & offset figures, tables, > fonts, sizes, & ouput in all of txt ps pdf pcl & html output.) Solved by using groff from ports. >=20 > Unfortnately I have'nt time to help test with my data as FreeBSD > already eats too much time, shoving bind from src to ports (+planning > to dump bind & move on) + ripping majordomo & acroread out of ports, > all of which I need & must restore before upgrading servers & > workstations. >=20 > Changes would need maximal warning & minimum disruption please. Groff in base is rottening for various reasons and lacks lots of the featur= es provided by a full groff. Using groff from ports is a win for user realying on groff specific toolcha= in. Heirloom in base is a win over groff because it has better support for roff= (7) better font handling etc. Best regards, Bapt --pvezYHf7grwyp3Bc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlVbHfQACgkQ8kTtMUmk6ExHdACfdlKRwh9AlwjS+DLsPdPYl7QJ FfEAnAuSdVK1nB+CDq0dHNga0vVU9MVF =ke7N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pvezYHf7grwyp3Bc--