From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 19:31:11 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B079F14BE599 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 19:31:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x743.google.com (mail-qk1-x743.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::743]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97A1D76125 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 19:31:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x743.google.com with SMTP id m66so1398641qke.8 for ; Fri, 01 Feb 2019 11:31:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FfLzHDwkopwU8dKADSkhZTeXh6DfLA+ItFf2AUTe4O0=; b=povqSck4ObgxCrzbwukLjdY1X07Ev+QElXZpLL1LZtaqb6eobfbh4pL3mrKKxIyNRK mWJVisUsmup+zxSWccOWHudNTlVEc84RxbZcYHrHWTL0NaJgWF52qxp026KJD9RqocOK Ou2zMCj1ZW2iHZkTqJv1qCSlvWcDino0OAen7AZqZRMDyublOlvookKOknAkOs7/bl9i WlpfnNbQXjJ55jYob/ONvCLtuMLUmIotPQNhEObm3hI8JHanJkpczPZ8NCAY2+ndPHnu kilm4EbxmFSrcql/bKSrIqf/EsVG1axOe/vNIsHYm9Va0qpTAxGzG/GfxU7svnDFEbvF zniw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FfLzHDwkopwU8dKADSkhZTeXh6DfLA+ItFf2AUTe4O0=; b=QjonUY8mPqssW/XwUPyTci/NRf+VvIxubbMGW38nPZzWIBQZD80/A/bnuVCxntxY3E /zQJqpiPLgT34oVOJ7eIC3GusDB6KnucYWe9t8f6GtX9aV7Yv6KWEbB0SLmSWwsdl0cx u3Hcpxub9lc1khIbKt+cdeq3v3fOLFKZXayn41cSeFwvBkwj67K82P6D9DdazK6dc/lP QRB4tQBKz1c743oH7uOZPRLT12udgx5mCe9n5OYh2w63Y4DPO9mGG8T13ZwkpL+nib0l XaAix48DzGfxU8/icdTT6y6toaJfN5dNHkrSKrsks6ifAQXjDltPSC9g40UPhH+Bx+9S HASA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcNe1ICkszmC0xPSzEBNtw/W+MOzadpWQjvakmzza+EFrg7tK7t VpFyxyXEYuXj9tombStPN3Da1Ss7pdquseUSmQsZrQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7g8jcaoMVOD5kKvbO9QEBm8YMW+islLNkM0KdL9icNXAh0mvFvGeB0jWL4UF40t9Kz4k3tiZFEzc9sxednluY= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6e86:: with SMTP id j128mr38353302qkc.46.1549049469757; Fri, 01 Feb 2019 11:31:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190201092048.GA23409@ymer.vnode.se> <201902011200.x11C0oDw022638@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190201180118.GD3654@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: <20190201180118.GD3654@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 12:30:57 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Reminder: FCP-101: pending removal of some 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Brooks Davis Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , FreeBSD Net , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Joel Dahl X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 97A1D76125 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=povqSck4 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.96 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.58)[-0.577,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.51)[0.509,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.85)[-0.849,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-0.03)[ip: (4.23), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.39), asn: 15169(-1.91), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 19:31:11 -0000 On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 11:05 AM Brooks Davis On Fri, Feb 01, 2019 at 04:00:50AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:43:44PM +0000, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > > We are currently planning to remove the following less-popular 10/100 > > > > Ethernet drivers in the March/April timeframe: > > > > > > > > ae, bm, cs, de, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, sf, sn, tl, tx, txp, vx, > wb, xe > > > > > > > > All of these drivers generate warnings in FreeBSD 12 and to the best > of > > > > my knowledge, none have cleared the bar specified in the FCP[0]: > > > > > > > > https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > The above document states that the support lifetime for FreeBSD 12 is > 2023. > > > > > > The expected EOL (but not decided) for 12 is June 30, 2020 however, > according to > > > > Can someone please go revise where ever this is posted based on the 18 > month > > minima that was set to simply state "undetermined", people are reading > too much > > into the date posted there. > > > > > https://www.freebsd.org/security/security.html#sup > > > > > > So, hardware in some of my machines will only be supported until > sometime next > > > year. > > > > Brooks, > > Given that at the time FCP-101 was written part of it was > > based on the assumption of a 5 year life time for 12.0. Since that > > assumption is now invalid, and worse, unknown, I would ask that until > > a decision about the life of 12.0 is made we back off on the FCP-101 > process > > and not do anything about removing drivers until that support > > model adjustment is finalized and we can evaluate the impact on > > FCP-101's assumption. > > Per the text of my email and the schedule in the FCP, no deletions > will occur until after the support lifetime of 12 is scheduled to be > resolved. Should that date slip then any deletions would also slip. > Should the lifetime of 12 be drastically reduced relative to the > original lifetime, then yes we should revisit our list and schedule. > > A majority of these devices have *zero* confirmed users so we should > likely delete them before 13 no matter what happens to 12-STABLE's > lifetime. > None of the drivers on the current list, with the possible exception of ae, are used enough that the 12.x support timeline matters at all. And only in the craziest of scenarios would ae come close to mattering. The rest are all already dead and not even a close call between completely irrelevant and almost completely irrelevant, let alone meeting a standard of relevant enough to provide net value to the project. No further action beyond data collection is scheduled on this FCP until > after the end of the quarter. I should run a new report based on the data we have around that time as well... Warner -- Brooks > > P.S. All of this hardware will be supported until at least September 30, > 2021 on FreeBSD 11-STABLE. >