Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 09:09:12 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" <bz@freebsd.org> Cc: John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>, src-committers <src-committers@freebsd.org>, "<dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org>" <dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org>, "<dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org>" <dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: git: cf94672363d6 - main - rtw88/rtw89: remove local firmware. Message-ID: <CANCZdfqMcdZ=2tg70%2B1fq2yQi851RNTzEJUOgd-0i%2B62vWAvBw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5o323300-6053-0s28-692r-6oro7qq5n9p8@serrofq.bet> References: <202309052116.385LGoau059784@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <d9be0f6a-baed-55f1-5ea1-390e1392a631@FreeBSD.org> <92064p8n-134r-9rqo-8038-rpnq4r25p567@SerrOFQ.bet> <5325f22d-9e7f-04bd-ab35-128438eb9a2a@FreeBSD.org> <4sr8n9or-q731-1945-893s-no953r283756@SerrOFQ.bet> <CANCZdfpPx8NmBR5d9H5=GeSSSGGjxZpv=x1EJX-NQNX9gOFpYg@mail.gmail.com> <5o323300-6053-0s28-692r-6oro7qq5n9p8@serrofq.bet>
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--000000000000c6372f0604c63e78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 7:45 AM Bjoern A. Zeeb <bz@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Thu, 7 Sep 2023, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 6:36=E2=80=AFAM Bjoern A. Zeeb <bz@freebsd.org> = wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 6 Sep 2023, John Baldwin wrote: > >> > >>> On 9/6/23 12:06 PM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: > >>>> On Wed, 6 Sep 2023, John Baldwin wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On 9/5/23 2:16 PM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: > >>>>>> The branch main has been updated by bz: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> URL: > >>>>>> > >> > https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=3Dcf94672363d6638b7268c05b4628b62= bbfc8dbe5 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> commit cf94672363d6638b7268c05b4628b62bbfc8dbe5 > >>>>>> Author: Bjoern A. Zeeb <bz@FreeBSD.org> > >>>>>> AuthorDate: 2023-06-08 21:35:09 +0000 > >>>>>> Commit: Bjoern A. Zeeb <bz@FreeBSD.org> > >>>>>> CommitDate: 2023-09-05 21:13:18 +0000 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> rtw88/rtw89: remove local firmware. > >>>>>> Remove firmware from src/ in favor of the ports/package= s > >> and > >>>>>> fwget(8). > >>>>>> This will allow us to shrink the size of src (and installed > >>>>>> modules). > >>>>>> Update the rtw88 man page to reflect the change. > >>>>> > >>>>> How does this interfact with doing an install to a machine over one > of > >>>>> these > >>>>> interfaces? > >>>> > >>>> That's nothing we support. At least we do not support netboot over > wifi > >>>> currently, so you'll always need another install media. > >>>> > >>>> How's the "bootstrapping" going to work if wireless is the only > network > >>>> option? > >>> > >>> To be clear, I was discussing the case you use a USB memstick, but > fetch > >>> the base system and packages over the network. > >> > >> Understood. Not sure we actually support the former; I guess I am no= t > >> using the installer too much. > >> > >> > >>> Or at least you need to > >>> install pkg over the network, but you need pkg to install the firmwar= e > >>> so you can bring up the network which you did address, though it seem= s > >>> something we plan to fix in the future so won't be in 14.0? > >> > >> Yes. We plan to sort this out but I'd say it's unlikely for 14.0. > >> > >> And to be clear, it was me who raised exactly these "botstrapping" > >> installer concerns in the first place. > >> > >> At the moment we will first need stable drivers to be able to do any > >> networking in first place. Once that is sorted, installing mobile > >> devices with just them and no other means of networking will be > >> addressed. > >> > > > > Yea, the rtw88 driver is stable enough for me to do a network install > > over it. So now people with -current can't do that any more and have > > to do hokey things to get the firmware or other packages to the laptop > > before they can do anything. This is not really going to make people > > happy and will generate a fair number of complaints. > > > > I'd assume some other "fallout" will improve some installer bits along > >> when this happens and that we'll want enough and brought testing for i= t. > >> > > > > It sounds rather premature to remove it from -current if there's no > support > > in the installer, and nothing in place that adds the packages to the > > installation > > media with no firm plans or timelines to address that. > > You do understand that I also disconnected rtw88 from main? > > Please read the announcement and/or fill the gap. It is no less premature. It's the first step without a clear timeline. You've removed functionality that was present and my point is still valid. It's even worse because now I have to add this driver back when I upgrade my laptop or I have to find the USB dongle I was using. This just doesn't make any sense to me. Warner /bz > > -- > Bjoern A. Zeeb r15:7 --000000000000c6372f0604c63e78 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 7:45 AM Bjoern A. Zeeb <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:bz@freebsd.org">bz@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockqu= ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s= olid;padding-left:1ex">On Thu, 7 Sep 2023, Warner Losh wrote:<br> <br> > On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 6:36=E2=80=AFAM Bjoern A. Zeeb <<a href=3D"m= ailto:bz@freebsd.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bz@freebsd.org</= a>> wrote:<br> ><br> >> On Wed, 6 Sep 2023, John Baldwin wrote:<br> >><br> >>> On 9/6/23 12:06 PM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote:<br> >>>> On Wed, 6 Sep 2023, John Baldwin wrote:<br> >>>><br> >>>>> On 9/5/23 2:16 PM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote:<br> >>>>>> The branch main has been updated by bz:<br> >>>>>><br> >>>>>> URL:<br> >>>>>><br> >> <a href=3D"https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=3Dcf94672363d66= 38b7268c05b4628b62bbfc8dbe5" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank= ">https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=3Dcf94672363d6638b7268c05b4628b62= bbfc8dbe5</a><br> >>>>>><br> >>>>>> commit cf94672363d6638b7268c05b4628b62bbfc8dbe5<br= > >>>>>> Author:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bjoern A. Zeeb <bz@F= reeBSD.org><br> >>>>>> AuthorDate: 2023-06-08 21:35:09 +0000<br> >>>>>> Commit:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bjoern A. Zeeb <bz@F= reeBSD.org><br> >>>>>> CommitDate: 2023-09-05 21:13:18 +0000<br> >>>>>><br> >>>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0rtw88/rtw89: remove loca= l firmware.<br> >>>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Remove fi= rmware from src/ in favor of the ports/packages<br> >> and<br> >>>>>> fwget(8).<br> >>>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This will allow us to sh= rink the size of src (and installed<br> >>>>>> modules).<br> >>>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Update the rtw88 man pag= e to reflect the change.<br> >>>>><br> >>>>> How does this interfact with doing an install to a mac= hine over one of<br> >>>>> these<br> >>>>> interfaces?<br> >>>><br> >>>> That's nothing we support.=C2=A0 At least we do not su= pport netboot over wifi<br> >>>> currently, so you'll always need another install media= .<br> >>>><br> >>>> How's the "bootstrapping" going to work if w= ireless is the only network<br> >>>> option?<br> >>><br> >>> To be clear, I was discussing the case you use a USB memstick,= but fetch<br> >>> the base system and packages over the network.<br> >><br> >> Understood.=C2=A0 Not sure we actually support the former;=C2=A0 I= guess I am not<br> >> using the installer too much.<br> >><br> >><br> >>> Or at least you need to<br> >>> install pkg over the network, but you need pkg to install the = firmware<br> >>> so you can bring up the network which you did address, though = it seems<br> >>> something we plan to fix in the future so won't be in 14.0= ?<br> >><br> >> Yes.=C2=A0 We plan to sort this out but I'd say it's unlik= ely for 14.0.<br> >><br> >> And to be clear, it was me who raised exactly these "botstrap= ping"<br> >> installer concerns in the first place.<br> >><br> >> At the moment we will first need stable drivers to be able to do a= ny<br> >> networking in first place.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Once that is sorted, instal= ling mobile<br> >> devices with just them and no other means of networking will be<br= > >> addressed.<br> >><br> ><br> > Yea, the rtw88 driver is stable enough for me to do a network install<= br> > over it. So now people with -current can't do that any more and ha= ve<br> > to do hokey things to get the firmware or other packages to the laptop= <br> > before they can do anything. This is not really going to make people<b= r> > happy and will generate a fair number of complaints.<br> ><br> > I'd assume some other "fallout" will improve some instal= ler bits along<br> >> when this happens and that we'll want enough and brought testi= ng for it.<br> >><br> ><br> > It sounds rather premature to remove it from -current if there's n= o support<br> > in the installer, and nothing in place that adds the packages to the<b= r> > installation<br> > media with no firm plans or timelines to address that.<br> <br> You do understand that I also disconnected rtw88 from main?<br> <br> Please read the announcement and/or fill the gap.</blockquote></div></div><= div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">It is no less premature. It= 9;s the first step without a clear timeline. You've removed functionali= ty that was present and my point is still valid.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br= ></div><div dir=3D"auto">It's even worse because now I have to add this= driver back when I upgrade my laptop or I have to find the USB dongle I wa= s using.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This just doesn= 't make any sense to me.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a= uto">Warner</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"></div><div d= ir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockqu= ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s= olid;padding-left:1ex"> /bz<br> <br> -- <br> Bjoern A. Zeeb=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r15:7</blockquote></= div></div></div> --000000000000c6372f0604c63e78--
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