From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 24 18:56:30 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C67FE72 for ; Sat, 24 May 2014 18:56:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f171.google.com (mail-ie0-f171.google.com [209.85.223.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D75A23F2 for ; Sat, 24 May 2014 18:56:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id to1so6335138ieb.30 for ; Sat, 24 May 2014 11:56:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=vx8yWcW9df+NLXIqVvizZY+C1CGvyJcCUddybmowf7I=; b=Fm48lo0pslHH2ysp3LYWzLUvjIu1a/wtYYIRwEVaAPEunn2+CaMkqnaPxIgcAfrl4x yHDq6P89mqwFGp1VEexqicfejr5FGW5wPZH2x7cAzXTjdUdWkNekgJ9kgsz6ygf7GndO xLE3bwoPK/AwzIPjq8ZAX4k4c9HHpwnVb09iPTauj/snZepoeWid3TyI0spNxNJaz7LC AktySpsrnDXN9WqSY27ss9rNGUgCIz2F3p5P5LDOWt0vOmNXyIN8u/10heZP6kkY83Z2 N01DXGwGisQwxjQQxDrHAnkVGPZELpQl84PeXfm3OzGvuZ8ZexA3kPmzE8Epd1XCnhnb XBbA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnmbN1MiVN8Ux7r7SDbwA5U+CkzshugRVear9bxtutiUlP6ei+K8zg0oVgFPIhV5URdoh4p X-Received: by 10.50.43.201 with SMTP id y9mr13830826igl.12.1400957783161; Sat, 24 May 2014 11:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.119] (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d6sm13757981igr.12.2014.05.24.11.56.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 24 May 2014 11:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_430514DB-3337-47FD-AF8D-5A9C63E9164F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) Subject: Re: svn commit: r266553 - head/release/scripts From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <20140524165940.3c687553@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 12:56:30 -0600 Message-Id: References: <201405221922.s4MJM4Y9025265@svn.freebsd.org> <537F6706.6070509@freebsd.org> <20140523153619.GF72340@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <537F6EBC.3080008@freebsd.org> <20140523162020.GG72340@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <20140524165940.3c687553@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> To: Tijl Coosemans X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , src-committers@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, Glen Barber , Nathan Whitehorn , svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 18:56:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_430514DB-3337-47FD-AF8D-5A9C63E9164F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On May 24, 2014, at 8:59 AM, Tijl Coosemans wrote: > On Fri, 23 May 2014 17:29:48 -0600 Warner Losh wrote: >> On May 23, 2014, at 10:20 AM, Baptiste Daroussin = wrote: >>> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 08:52:28AM -0700, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: >>>> On 05/23/14 08:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>>>> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 08:19:34AM -0700, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: >>>>>> Is there any chance of finally switching the pkg abi identifiers = to just >>>>>> be uname -p? >>>>>> -Nathan >>>>> Keeping asking won't make it happen, I have explained a large = number of time why it >>>>> happened, why it is not easy for compatibility and why uname -p is = still not >>>>> representing the ABI we do support, and what flexibility we need = that the >>>>> current string offers to us. >>>>>=20 >>>>> if one is willing to do the work, please be my guess, just dig = into the archives >>>>> and join the pkg development otherwise: no it won't happen before = a while >>>>> because we have way too much work on the todo and this item is = stored at the >>>>> very end of this todo. >>>>>=20 >>>>> regards, >>>>> Bapt >>>>=20 >>>> I'm happy to do the work, and have volunteered now many times. If = uname=20 >>>> -p does not describe the ABI fully, then uname -p needs changes on = the=20 >>>> relevant platforms. Which are they? What extra flexibility does the=20= >>>> string give you if uname -p describes the ABI completely? >>>> -Nathan >>>=20 >>> just simple examples in armv6: >>> - eabi vs oabi >>> - The different float abi (even if only one is supported for now = others are >>> being worked on) >>> - little endian vs big endian >>=20 >> All of those are encoded in the MACHINE_ARCH + freebsd version, no = exceptions >> on supported architectures that are tier 2 or higher. This seems like = a weak reason. >>=20 >>> the extras flexibilit is being able to say this binary do support = freebsd i386 >>> and amd64 in one key, freebsd:9:x86:*, or or all arches freebsd:10:* >>=20 >> Will there be a program to convert this new, special invention to the = standard >> that we=92ve used for the past 20 years? If you need the flexibility, = which I=92m not >> entirely sure I=92ve seen a good use case for. When would you have a = x86 binary >> package? Wouldn=92t it be either i386 or amd64? >=20 > ABI isn't just about the instruction set. It's also about the sizes = of C > types (like pointers). If I remember correctly, the pkg scheme was = chosen > to allow for ABIs like x32 which use the 64 bit instruction set with = 32 > bit pointers. MACHINE_ARCH would also be amd64 in this case. ABIs like x32 would not have a MACHINE_ARCH of =93amd64=94 but would = have a MACHINE_ARCH of =93x32=94. This is exactly what we do with mips today. = So this ins=92t an argument for not using MACHINE_ARCH directly, rather = than having an arbitrary mapping (which is the problem with the proposed scheme). MACHINE_ARCH, as it stands in FreeBSD, uniquely defines the ABI (modulo occasional bugs that are fixed). > The advantage of the pkg scheme is that it has a formal structure. = That's > what makes it flexible, extensible, machine parsable, etc. I'd rather = see > the rest of FreeBSD adopt this scheme than that pkg would have to = adopt > the informal names. The use of x86 instead of i386/amd64 is part of = the > idea to merge more of sys/i386 and sys/amd64 into sys/x86 and = eventually > define MACHINE as "x86=94. MACHINE and MACHINE_ARCH are different. Please don=92t confuse them. > Patterns like freebsd:9:* will probably become more prevalent when = support > for subpackages is added. Some of the subpackages (like = documentation) will > be ABI independent. True, but not relevant to the machine name you use. Warner --Apple-Mail=_430514DB-3337-47FD-AF8D-5A9C63E9164F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTgOteAAoJEGwc0Sh9sBEAIOoQANtqG5DOzMtGJDKuPF9OZc+8 xT5Z9Ahc9DxZeSdDxPj1BRdO9ZlYuU2vBXSS25sqjYrDPv5bJuDzLv8ECgETVzqn /9z5K1Dxc+Zl5CAhOuOGDk4003c5XDwDLEJqvHjF1QrmKecPsNXE5pzb9Sr2gHsB m/X5kmzHEUz9gral3Z1Y+APaAySvJVNHVWViQHqSLlNeYtvpMzOCkTyIMDL7rlNQ Mvkdh0w88ZFba+UmUSSrFu/NHba9BBa4A1+uw08lqWfn7wmW7b4G3rk4VhZeABWO zJds91bW8kN141Nh5GWeoI9lytHrpoaWVjF1c5FDmjiC5099PAcyGn77ZOM6UlS+ TEVO5HAvhhiUUShYX+Rtx9S3EUuNsCBJG6/WeC4NnCcO0gMpjcQinnJWaWusGtw7 h+OD57tId7N3tA1QjpY8Xk9jWMH/QuHzsH7/XPkkFcfBBHAOzcEbaStf+npWZa3b 7DYeUlTOJvy023AHVvsE3J/YIeAlghN9IVbqVATkD2JLFT0VRTREx287ohrmEvJe ONNbviQ80cCAUsLbRZ3hlRrXIvnKE/F/2OGDUOm2QYMVIs7epMeMsS4GlMP2CgLq CQkz6aSXB/+XV5CN2Ro4eakysCZGaFitmUrA2i6mFBas+v6cs1COhto3/4fO8nJ7 lKK6lROSdemoTkcEUipY =0Csk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_430514DB-3337-47FD-AF8D-5A9C63E9164F--