From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 20 02:15:17 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C58106564A; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 02:15:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A868FC0C; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 02:15:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n0K2C43r082916; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:12:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:12:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20090119.191238.1389906774.imp@bsdimp.com> To: obrien@FreeBSD.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20090120012256.GB29741@dragon.NUXI.org> References: <20090119165030.GA18409@dragon.NUXI.org> <20090119.181435.-298663465.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090120012256.GB29741@dragon.NUXI.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, ed@FreeBSD.org, stas@FreeBSD.org, rwatson@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r187332 - head/tools/regression/usr.bin/jot X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 02:15:18 -0000 In message: <20090120012256.GB29741@dragon.NUXI.org> "David O'Brien" writes: : On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 06:14:35PM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > In message: <20090119165030.GA18409@dragon.NUXI.org> : > "David O'Brien" writes: : > : On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:00:55PM +0000, Robert Watson wrote: : > : > : > : > On Sat, 17 Jan 2009, Stanislav Sedov wrote: : > : > : > : >> Was this discussed somewhere? I don't understand why we should restrict : > : >> our filesystem naming because of limitation of auxilary filesystems. : > : >> There're even more restrictive filesystems available, we couldn't support : > : >> them all. While previous modifications looked harmless this one seems : > : >> questionable to me. : > : >> : > : >> I understand, this is a bikesched, but I really don't see a reason. You : > : >> can't build FreeBSD on windows anyway. : > : > : > : > Many of us would *very* much like to be able to cross-build FreeBSD from : > : > both Windows and Mac OS X, which would be highly desirable for embedded : > : > systems and appliance shops. : > : : > : Run VMware. Seriously. Or raise a serious discussion on developers@ : > : about this and get conciseness that cross building on MacOS X and : > : MS-Windows is a goal. : > : > I've tried this on my mac. It doesn't work very well at all, and it a : > pita for file sharing. : : Sorry - I don't quite follow. What is "it"? The point I've made several times: minor renaming isn't much of a pain. It has big benefits to those people that wish to use other file systems that have different restrictions than we have. Yelling 'run a VM' isn't a productive suggestion, frankly, and given the low level of pain for a rename, shouldn't be yelled at all. I'm glad JUNOS can build inside its own VM. Kudos. But given that the world is much more than a tightly controlled development environment at a well funded company, I think that we need to be more accommodating. Especially for the embedded world. While a 'vm solution' is OK for today, I think it is too short-sighted and leaves some significant opportunities on the table. We shouldn't, as a project, say "nothing can change at all" for these systems. Rather, we should do a cost benefit analysis. For renaming, the cost seems very low, and the benefit seems very large. For other things, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it... Warner