Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 07:54:50 +0800 From: by <free7by@yahoo.com> To: Johan Bucht <jbucht@gmail.com> Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Something related to C and C++ Message-ID: <BF60A6D6-9948-4E1A-B199-AB3055751ED7@yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <CABze5AA-Y%2Ba-DsftK8_sz=mspJ4A6uaqfTpGeqozWQ%2BvpM7=Kw@mail.gmail.com> References: <B2051FAA-63AA-4F96-90BA-84157CE1F7AB@yahoo.com> <20140317103830.53c42ade@X220.alogt.com> <611B8DE5-F593-4574-96AB-0965CA7EDF33@yahoo.com> <CABze5AD6STPLfriTJJazM%2BqhHJkVtBMgMzNWsQi%2B6vMkWox_0g@mail.gmail.com> <5326D093.90308@yahoo.com> <CABze5AC6WZfyG9VYUunCjtQS66mY1Ahfu%2BMhYN=SkJgR%2BTHcLw@mail.gmail.com> <39562806-80F4-4D4C-BAFD-20DCB537B303@yahoo.com> <DD029BFE-D06E-4102-915D-B379D8200A9F@yahoo.com> <CABze5AA-Y%2Ba-DsftK8_sz=mspJ4A6uaqfTpGeqozWQ%2BvpM7=Kw@mail.gmail.com>
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I got no chance to learn in college, cause I will graduate this summer and I want find a job Unix-related, C-related, in my college, I had not learn much in C and Unix, cause my college use Windows, and not focus on C-related, and for me, I start learning these this year, and I think I prefer read books just a little everyday, it can make me continuously familiar with these material which I like work on. I got four books in my hand now: C related, Unix related, FreeBSD related, and C++ related. And I think that the src in FreeBSD base system is a good way to practice C, like some simple utilities: echo, ls, etc. And FreeBSD got many historical docs in base system, and I think it is a great way to understand FreeBSD or Unix world more. The only problem is that, I find no passion if I just learn, maybe this will change after I got a related job. - by > On Mar 18, 2014, at 0:36, Johan Bucht <jbucht@gmail.com> wrote: > > The systems programming class in university was a lot about rewriting > common unix tools from 'cut' to a shell and network programming. > > > >> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 5:22 PM, by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> By the way, who knows how to improve C skills? Cause I am a newbie, and I >> am reading the book <<The C Programming Language>> >> But I plan read it a little everyday, so any other methods? >> >> - by >> >>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 0:15, by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> I totally agree with you! >>> Actually, now I prefer the domain which is not too low but not too high >> neither, in a word, I think being a system programmer should be cool. >>> >>> - by >>> >>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:22, Johan Bucht <jbucht@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> As there are different strengths and weaknesses resulting from the >> design decisions chosen for the different languages, learn as many >> different types as you can and experience how they shape solutions to >> problems in different ways and how you reason about them. >>>> >>>> "I have never met anybody who has changed their reasoning first and >> their habits second. You change your habits first." >>>> >>>> The end goal is to solve problems in your domain, having a languages >> that maps perfectly to that domain (or makes it easy to create domain >> specific languages in) will certainly make it easier to read and write that >> code. But is it worth creating and maintaining that language for a small >> domain and train people in it? General purpose languages exists because of >> this. They might not map perfectly to the domain, but they have familiarity >> and cross breeding between users in different domains. >>>> Some languages are really small with little functionality included in >> the standard library, others are huge and contain a lot of seldom used >> functionality. For the small languages you might need to write common >> functionality yourself or find something someone else has written. For >> large languages you get that for free and most users will use what's >> provided. You get a standard way of solving problems, but the tools might >> not be best of breed or suit your specific use case. >>>> >>>> /Johan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:38 AM, by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> Yes, you are right, i have some prejudice for C++ before, but now, i >> think i won't, cause if i have not deeply working for some languages, >> technologies, i have no right to judge it, i need more and more practice : ) >>>>> Different fields got different technologies, the only key i think is >> that which field you prefer, and what kind of technology you prefer. >>>>> >>>>> - by >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 2014/3/17 17:14, Johan Bucht wrote: >>>>>> Working in higher level languages like Java, Ruby, Python and C++ >> does have >>>>>> some advantages to C and some disadvantages. There are always trade >> offs >>>>>> and there will always be languages closer to the domain that will be >> more >>>>>> elegant to solve specific problems. >>>>>> If you're mainly doing programming close to the hardware the >> abstractions >>>>>> from those higher level languages doesn't add much value and the >> runtime >>>>>> with garbage collection and more is something you probably need to be >> able >>>>>> to turn off. >>>>>> It's of course possible to implement a lot of the features in higher >> level >>>>>> languages in lower level ones, but the syntax will not be that >> suitable for >>>>>> it and you need to impose restrictions on yourself instead of the >> language >>>>>> doing it for you. >>>>>> For some tasks C is too high level and Assembler is needed but for >> most of >>>>>> the tasks any language will do and it's a matter of personal taste. >>>>>> >>>>>> /Johan >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:50 AM, by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, I think C++'s popular has something related to C's popular >> use, but >>>>>>> it contains too much, I prefer simple tool, do one thing, and do it >> well, >>>>>>> no more extras, and build a system with their combinations, at least >> the >>>>>>> base system. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - by >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:38, Erich Dollansky <erich@alogt.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:20:55 +0800 >>>>>>>> by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as C++ is C plus 'some' extras, just start with C. When you know C - >>>>>>>> which you have to know anyway to write C++ programs - you can add >> C++ >>>>>>>> to your knowledge. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Never forget that object orientated programming is much older than >> C++ >>>>>>>> and can be done in most languages. I did my first steps in object >>>>>>>> orientated programming in 8080 assembler without even knowing that >>>>>>>> what I did will be later be known as object orientated programming. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The little programming I still do is all done in C but using some of >>>>>>>> the 'addons' of C++. So, all my sources are .cpp files. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Erich >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> At first, I would say, I do not want to lead to a holy war between >>>>>>>>> programming languages, and I am a newbie in this field, but I am >>>>>>>>> confused about this, so I want get some answers or discusses from >>>>>>>>> here to help me thinking about this. I found that in IT industry, >> C++ >>>>>>>>> has more and more users, I can understand why they do this, C++ can >>>>>>>>> make them build system more easy than C does. okay, I just know a >>>>>>>>> little about C++, but in my feeling, C++ can make you do things in >> a >>>>>>>>> higher place. Yes, C++ is great, but for me, it is too difficult, >> or >>>>>>>>> I would say, it is too complicated. I got two books in my hand, one >>>>>>>>> is <<The C Programming Language>>, another is <<The C++ Programming >>>>>>>>> Language>>. Just consider from the weight : ) You can find >> something. >>>>>>>>> Language>>In the past, GCC use C, but now it turn to C++, and LLVM >> is >>>>>>>>> Language>>written by C++. Yes I prefer C now, and you may say, you >>>>>>>>> Language>>have not use these two languages deeply, how could you >>>>>>>>> Language>>judge them? Yes, I know I should not judge them, but as a >>>>>>>>> Language>>newbie, this is my very feeling, just like a kid first >>>>>>>>> Language>>looking at this world! Simple, but confused. At last, I >> am >>>>>>>>> Language>>not lead to a holy war between programming languages, I >>>>>>>>> Language>>just confused and want some related answers. This is it. >> : ) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - by >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>>>>>>> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
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