From nobody Mon Apr 24 14:49:43 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q4p2T3sKsz46wQN for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:50:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q4p2T3HLGz3qSp; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:50:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1682347809; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=tcTEwzrrWB4P+Mmv4PkgbZWLAjcreBun0h/1Z/My4fk=; b=COimbT2Q4C1h2VWEguskl8aryvm3QP/2mI/5LfnEmp4gY/FtRNpu13yT9JmM9Kj1wG9jgQ hIktYpXlLfLPwiZ+FwpLn9/5ClDbnRy3PbwzgDHon6LxTdKlmkalm7BXAn2TKu9CBgcW+Y 8sinLgfghYCCbarxfNgMsX1fDBpI402ts4+jXr371rmPz6o8vublh1bQO/qpxw04BDd7bi DTCCoTPOCYMNVLGXrVcGLHGcs/aq8L1pXG5Tc++9eMNAi7FTVjqYuAhZB+k3uqlFAua9p5 8MVJnJovfeAda9TDuBUluyid6itqI9GQeT/UqmP7qzXlVMchk1e0KhsBiPtCBw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1682347809; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=tcTEwzrrWB4P+Mmv4PkgbZWLAjcreBun0h/1Z/My4fk=; b=RBnVmdtzgWQSv8o+XZgfcuyo+H1+FM6XyKWh1kqa4hz1+MRu8UYZ410+7WmKVn91OboVMv O5JMGAGAkunyj0xQJbBgN/V5gScYRUgsVNlTcm5tFEwXHonC/kw/RS5oFB5CJNPNVkUfe2 Hbn+uFfiKUZhL0DJL+CRLjPZ6+N8GxGancMtwrVff9wLoDmqk+8lvSB3u3fFSLBMIOJCnn 8ZyxhvvdnQcJHWZXoythcplIhi4baofkRaWPNUt47xCcu6SbL7ohhRZh5lLTR03k4oB/Bk 2+KrWHtCuzouqoSJZETuPnBnaTlbqm5M4P4GDh9Q/k0e5ePO5XgvE+KOH9nCkA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1682347809; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=IrBKwbXBAlbxPRrpa9pzjNU9qgcoLpknjHUtaMprx5l1oT0lgF1ISI0kfAQkJ3h8+qn+ge aiAhXZYuB/7W5iuVTbvbd4DeFsoe74fn3qfZHsK13wszUMmFQWLOAOag+xWege51rjVrw4 Z5mYMPjNO1Ds7Hztx/FtVZqpfrUvlYzGSMQhl65TwgNz9s3OXu98kT7DJIHnSC9N5Tx0bp HrlvW38YMuuaSnGIVrruAgljCV9mrzcvK17luXAZIqyTukiQb33UTQNqXpDAmCbm49qQrt CISd8faSk5pE0QEQanECvegSeeax9t4ks0lqJERaGth6e7gA/b8wUC5qJnF34A== Received: from tensor.andric.com (tensor.andric.com [87.251.56.140]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "tensor.andric.com", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: dim) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Q4p2T1cjdzgT8; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:50:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (longrow.home.andric.com [192.168.0.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 961D634FF0; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 16:50:07 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_28A2C80C-3CFA-46F5-9F0C-28D749B9F214"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.500.231\)) Subject: Re: OpenSSL in the FreeBSD base system / FreeBSD 14 From: Dimitry Andric In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 16:49:43 +0200 Cc: Charlie Li , Ed Maste , Joerg Pulz , freebsd-arch Message-Id: References: <8e00be00-e327-64d2-0018-7525a1ba6f2e@freebsd.org> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.500.231) X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --Apple-Mail=_28A2C80C-3CFA-46F5-9F0C-28D749B9F214 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 24 Apr 2023, at 16:39, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 8:33 AM Charlie Li wrote: > Ed Maste wrote: > > The problem is that we have conflicting constraints: OpenSSL 1.1.1 is > > EOL shortly after 14.0 releases, and there are ports that do not yet > > build against OpenSSL 3. I am not sure how much will be broken if we > > update the base system to OpenSSL 3 but leave the privatelib aside > > (i.e., have the base system provide OpenSSL 3 to ports). > > > OpenSSL 3 is a major, even larger than 1.1, API/ABI change. Quite a bit > of stuff will be broken today. The effort here has to include working > with as many port upstreams as possible to force the issue, as they may > not hold OpenSSL 3 compatibility to be an immediate priority; patching > ports on a large scale like this is not sustainable. > > So why can't ports like this use 1.1 as a port rather than from base? Trouble starts when you attempt to mix openssl 1.1 and 3.0 libraries (both dynamic and static!) in dependent ports, because symbol names will collide. This is not an easily solvable problem, apart from the fact that an openssl 1.1 port would have the same basic issue that openssl 1.1 in the base system has: it will no longer be supported (at least without paying up) after $CUTOFF_DATE. The rest of the open source world has exactly the same problem of course, so either all abandoned openssl-1.x using programs have to be completely ditched, or you have to keep openssl-1.x on life support somehow. Guess what will happen. :) I think it is likely that this will be a repeat of the Python 2.x debacle, e.g. against better judgement everybody will just keep on using the deprecated version for years, and it may never fade out completely... -Dimitry --Apple-Mail=_28A2C80C-3CFA-46F5-9F0C-28D749B9F214 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.2 iF0EARECAB0WIQR6tGLSzjX8bUI5T82wXqMKLiCWowUCZEaXBwAKCRCwXqMKLiCW oxQ1AJ9U6zTPM4/wbvC6PB/5BioVtXLEhwCeIIy/oQbAp+QxMSkN/D2JXxKBfLs= =5xzF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_28A2C80C-3CFA-46F5-9F0C-28D749B9F214--