From nobody Sat Feb 7 11:58:10 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4f7TxP2Kftz6Pjlc for ; Sat, 07 Feb 2026 11:58:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from h4ckee@proton.me) Received: from mail-24427.protonmail.ch (mail-24427.protonmail.ch [109.224.244.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "protonmail.com", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4f7TxN6yYKz3RGC for ; Sat, 07 Feb 2026 11:58:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from h4ckee@proton.me) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proton.me; s=protonmail; t=1770465494; x=1770724694; bh=nFfViTHeTHonqjlb9a4zXb0uW23b9GTR4fAORDAgavs=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=ecRYPvk/DpJ79QvpnGRJr0PkXnPAXhr9koC0nzCWvzoY11KCUd4eSGa2vQWOqf8m6 qxXRg+ZhcdqqC7nwoV8eETxCEAbBEd4AcjjkDPWUxRjnjpxuFxPZxt3NEq1RIX6snn JbexfyC1zUgQN0OefZczZHEpRuvGd/FzVn+nRkWuO9bz4cyL/ZqzjUPgs8/nM5A6b8 +JNjGSYnoLo2mhMlkNnF+nfiK/r7UAdXKumLyn0+RGWtjTXNISqeXSAf2DfAzRdQSZ uC+a5ylee5oYxJLXJuK8cSSHfEmaUpk0StmjKZ5wWT0UGMMjrR8KPvqqiVOqksl9KP 0gl/qUZJSWbqg== Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2026 11:58:10 +0000 To: vimanuelt From: hackee Cc: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FreBSD pkgbase vs distsets. Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2e96a48c-b4e7-47d9-b1b7-bfc3ce789664@app.fastmail.com> References: <2e96a48c-b4e7-47d9-b1b7-bfc3ce789664@app.fastmail.com> Feedback-ID: 57180569:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 341304dfe6b954adbf66aa3d9b2d8d118db31fd5 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62371, ipnet:109.224.244.0/24, country:CH] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4f7TxN6yYKz3RGC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Hi Vester. Thanks for your reply. Please consider at least the possibility building di= ssets from source, as the packages only provide default options that you wi= ll have to use whether you want to or not. At the moment I'm using the code present in Makefiles which allows dissets = to be assembled and packaged and placed into a filesystem which is then wra= pped into an ISO image. If this code is removed, I will have to spend a lot= of time redoing much of my project's code. Additionally distsets building = scenario is self-contained, while building base with pkgbase requires ports= , e.i. /usr/ports/ports-mgmt/pkg (with thousands of files) which I don't ne= ed/use, at least in my building environment. BR, Sergei. =D1=81=D1=83=D0=B1=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=B0, 7 =D1=84=D0=B5=D0=B2=D1=80= =D0=B0=D0=BB=D1=8F 2026 =D0=B3., 1:40 =D0=94=D0=9F, vimanuelt =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB: > As an aside, as FreeBSD moves away from packagesets and toward pkgbase, i= t may be useful to consider whether there are other directions that could c= omplement this transition without committing the base system to a single di= stribution model. >=20 > Packagesets were introduced to help administrators reason about the base = system as a coherent whole, to control upgrade scope, and to avoid partial = or inconsistent updates. The underlying issue they addressed was not packag= ing itself, but the difficulty of maintaining a clear and stable system bou= ndary in a mutable environment. >=20 > One possible alternative is to treat the base system as a set of immutabl= e, versioned artifacts rather than as a mutable collection of packages. In = such a model, the base OS would be built, published, and consumed as a cohe= rent unit with a stable identity. Updates would involve switching between k= nown system states instead of incrementally modifying a live environment. T= his shifts consistency checks to build and publication time rather than upg= rade time, and largely avoids the class of problems that packagesets were d= esigned to mitigate. >=20 > This approach aligns with several long-standing FreeBSD values, including= reproducibility, explicit interfaces, and administrative clarity. It may a= lso reduce upgrade risk and make rollback and recovery easier to reason abo= ut. Importantly, it would not replace pkg or ports. Instead, it would clari= fy their role by keeping them outside the base system boundary, where flexi= bility and change are expected and acceptable. >=20 > Pkgbase already moves toward better base system lifecycle management with= in a package-oriented framework. An artifact-oriented perspective could be = seen as a further step, changing the upgrade semantics rather than refining= them. It does not recreate packagesets, but it may make their original pur= pose largely unnecessary by eliminating partial base system updates altoget= her. >=20 > Whether this is desirable is an open question. It depends on whether Free= BSD wishes to continue supporting fine-grained, in-place mutation of the ba= se system, or whether it is worth exploring a model where the base system i= s something you select, verify, and replace as a whole. >=20 > These are questions I am exploring and evaluating using prototypes. >=20 > Best regards, > Vester "Vic" Thacker >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Feb 6, 2026, at 19:22, hackee wrote: >=20 > > Hello guys! > >=20 > > As far as I understand, FreeBSD 16 is planned to drop distsets support > > and move entirely to pkgbase. I am writing to ask you to reconsider > > this decision. > > I maintain a small FreeBSD-based project for my own hardware ( for > > amd64 platform, code can be seen here: > > https://github.com/h4ckee/CoreBSD ), that depends heavily on distsets, > > and migrating it to a pkgbase-only model would be highly inconvenient. > > I build custom compact ISO image based on that code. My equipment is > > for personal use, laptops and a server, but I'm hoping to create a > > small storage solution based on the compact FreeBSD distribution and > > may use it on my employer's equipment. There are also other companies > > and projects that use FreeBSD to build their own distributions=E2=80= =94such as > > appliances and embedded systems=E2=80=94that similarly rely on distsets= . I > > would like to propose keeping distsets intact while continuing to offer > > pkgbase as an alternative for those who wish to use it, in the same way > > it is done in the FreeBSD 15 release. I hope you will consider this > > request favorably. > >=20 > > Best regards, > > Tech. Eng. Sergei Praskovin.