From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 2 17:56:30 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FF416A418 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 17:56:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mchauber@gmx.net) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A97B813C46C for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 17:56:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mchauber@gmx.net) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Sep 2007 17:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (EHLO [192.168.1.102]) [204.116.241.146] by mail.gmx.net (mp004) with SMTP; 02 Sep 2007 19:56:27 +0200 X-Authenticated: #15034054 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+IZDRj5n2IyN70kVrRBHIt3s/dqAbXXgEDKMTexP iWDWKDGTm4P9/j From: Michael Hauber To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:56:12 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <200709020222.21000.mchauber@gmx.net> <46DA9AA5.8030904@otenet.gr> In-Reply-To: <46DA9AA5.8030904@otenet.gr> X-Copyright-Notice: 2007 Michael C. Hauber X-Copyright-Info: This transmission is copyrighted and may not be stored, printed, forwarded, or distributed by any means without the author's hand-written consent. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2988671.EBGl2pv5uX"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200709021356.23513.mchauber@gmx.net> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Subject: Re: Sadly, my tinker-time has run out.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mchauber@gmx.net List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:56:30 -0000 --nextPart2988671.EBGl2pv5uX Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Sunday 02 September 2007 07:12:37 am Manolis Kiagias proclaimed: > Michael Hauber wrote: > > Hey, all... > > > > I've been a user of FreeBSD and OpenBSD for quite a while now.=20 > > Unfortunatly, I haven't had much time to tinker lately, and that's > > unlikely to change in the near future. Sadly, I need to get an OS that > > my wife would be more comfortable using and that wouldn't be as > > time-comsuming to make it more comfortable for her. > > > > I downloaded the uberyl live CD and found that ubuntu seems to pick up = on > > everything I have on the laptop (as well as all the attachments), so I'm > > downloading it now. > > > > Because I've put so much time into getting this FreeBSD install where it > > is now (and because I favor the BSDs), I'm still a bit hesitant... Has > > anyone here had much experience with ubunu as a desktop?=20 > > Negatives/positives? > > > > Kind of OT, I guess... I'd just rather hear it from someone in this > > group rather than the inevitable, "Oh yeah. You won't be sorry." from > > the ubuntu folk (salespitches =3D=3D fingernails on a chalkboard :) ). > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike > > > > > > PS. Yes, I've played with PC-BSD. Unfortunately, that's still more wo= rk > > than I have time for. > > I am working (and tinkering as you put it) with many kinds of systems: > Fedora / Ubuntu as desktops, Debian as servers, FreeBSD both desktops > and servers, Windows 2003 servers, XP desktops, even Vista :) > To put it simply, every system has its strong points, ups and downs. For > example, Windows has drivers for everything - many are crap, but they > still exist - and a few applications you just can't replace with > anything else. Ubuntu, the one you are considering, is based on Debian, > which I consider excellent, especially for servers. But if you are > coming from a FreeBSD background, Ubuntu will seem rather "restrictive" > and "easy". It is an easy desktop for *NIX beginners, and it is now > marketed as the Linux you will never have to touch the command line. As > I recall, the default install will not even setup gcc, although the > package (build-essential) is on CD. There are obviously a lot of helper > apps, like automatic installation of codecs etc. but it is still Linux. > If you are a power user you will need to tinker it, and there will be > things missing you will need to install. Example: First time I tried to > mount some NFS shares, they were taking ages. I found out it was missing > the nfs-common package. Maybe a beginner does not care about it, but I > consider this basic functionality and expect it to be there (or that I > will be informed it is not, beforehand). I also need the compiler, > kernel headers and stuff to compile kernel modules. Ubuntu seems to have > a lot of ready made things, good for beginners but quite limiting for > me, I have to actually rip things out to install my stuff (e.g. disable > their versions of some restricted drivers to install mine). That being > said, it is making an alternate, non-Windows desktop accessible to a lot > of people, which I consider a good thing. > Though I suggest Ubuntu to enthusiastic Linux beginners, I find it > difficult to give an argument for anyone with an average FreeBSD > knowledge. At home I mostly use Fedora as a Linux desktop. > > The part of your post I don't really understand, is what is really > bothering you with your FreeBSD install. Are you missing programs / > features you just can't live without? Is it something to do with the > ports / packages? Installing, customizing and becoming familiar with > your FreeBSD system does take some time, but this is followed by a very > long effortless stable operation. Assuming a typical installation where > users' needs don't constantly change, you can easily maintain a FreeBSD > install with minimum hassle. And how is Ubuntu going to be any easier > for your wife? Assuming you are administering the machine, a FreeBSD > with a Gnome desktop will be more or less the same from the user > standpoint to Ubuntu (or any other distro) with Gnome. > > These responses have all been informative, and I appreciate them very much.= =2E. To answer your question, it's a matter of access for both me and my wife. = Due=20 to my job, we travel quite a bit. For my wife, it's the small things=20 like, "My sister just sent me a link to a video on youtube and it's not=20 working right." For me, it's the hours I spend pouring over it, trying to= =20 get it to work for her. Personally, I prefer to build everything from ports because I can get the=20 custom builds. On this machine, that takes quite a bit of time. In one ca= se=20 (when FreeBSD ports went to x.org7.2 ), it took over a week to upgrade (I=20 arrived at a hotel and immediately started the upgrade, and when it came ti= me=20 a week later to check out, I had to stop it... That ended up creating a hu= ge=20 mess)... I'd like to think I'm pretty familiar with the BSDs. I've been using both= =20 =46reeBSD and OpenBSD since around '98 (both as desktops and various kinds = of=20 servers... I used to have 8 computers in my bedroom alone, and my hobby is= =20 tinkering. :) )... And I preffer them a great deal over any other=20 unix-like OS. But literally... I just don't have the time, anymore. For a= =20 server setup or something? Definately. Servers don't require a gui and all= =20 the bells and whistles so it's quick, painless, and rock-solid. For a=20 desktop? Not if time is so limited, there is only one computer left=20 (laptop), and the wife is getting annoid enough to say that she had it bett= er=20 in Egypt. :) I just assume have the bells-and-whistles working so her=20 friends don't give her a hard time about it (and something like Beryl would= =20 definately shut them up. :) Trivial, I know but for the wife it would be a= =20 well-deserved revenge. :) ). In short, I want something that "just works" and doesn't have the security = and=20 stability issues that the MS users seem to prefer. Linux seems to be the=20 better option for that. I'm in the process of backup, and will be installing ubuntu shortly. Like = one=20 of the repliers stated, I too feel somewhat guilty... But I'll be back one= =20 of these days. Thanks, all. Mike --nextPart2988671.EBGl2pv5uX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBG2vk9+uHcSBTNvT0RAt7PAKCf+vwSrIzHrO8Gakf7WcYp0Dht+wCgkgHL 8DwWJieneFgKG5TjKxPclgA= =HufI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2988671.EBGl2pv5uX--