From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 23 3:13: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.home.nl (mail1.home.nl [213.51.129.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E81EA37B400 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.CC40670-a.groni1.gr.nl.home.com ([217.123.110.189]) by mail1.home.nl (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20020423101303.NQCP1365.mail1.home.nl@lisa.CC40670-a.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:13:03 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jochem Kossen To: Joerg Micheel Subject: Re: Security through obscurity? (was: ssh + compiled-in SKEY support considered harmful?) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:13:00 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4] References: <20020423183452.M6425@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20020423211359.D48271@cs.waikato.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <20020423211359.D48271@cs.waikato.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200204231212.34754.j.kossen@home.nl> Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday 23 April 2002 11:13, you wrote: > On Tue, Apr 23, 2002 at 06:34:52PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > Well, yes. But I've been using X for 11 years. Why should I have > > to read the man page to find changes? How do I know which man page > > to read? If I did that for everything that happened, I wouldn't > > get any work done. And you can bet your bottom dollar that > > somebody coming from another UNIX variant and trying out FreeBSD > > won't do so. They'll just say that it's broken and wander off > > again. > > FWIW, I would be extremly pissed about this myself, I just happen to > not having installed 4.5 myself yet, for other reasons. I thought > there was a policy of the least surprise, it might have been to > kernel code, but should be applied here as well. I haven't seen your complaint anywhere... > The system has to work right away, when installed out of the box. > Period. No when's and if's. It does work. But i think you mean the tcp connections. Does that mean you vote for enabling _all_ services? They don't work out=20 of the box as well... > And don't tell me that X11 is an add-on and luxury. I agree, but the tcp connections IS an add-on luxury imho > We are living in the 21st century. That's right, the century of virii, DoS attacks, worms, and=20 scriptkiddiots. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message