From owner-freebsd-net@freebsd.org Wed Oct 17 17:51:24 2018 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-net@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-net@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16A6210DB231; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:51:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mazhe@alkumuna.eu) Received: from smtp5-g21.free.fr (smtp5-g21.free.fr [212.27.42.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A57FC8BE64; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:51:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mazhe@alkumuna.eu) Received: from yggdrasil.alkumuna.eu (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e34:ec17:2560:232:36ff:fe5c:3a87]) by smtp5-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE8965FFC6; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:51:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from gramr.alkumuna.eu ([IPv6:2a01:e34:ec17:2560:62a4:4cff:fe54:b212]) (authenticated bits=0) by yggdrasil.alkumuna.eu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w9HHp4xR034085 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:51:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mazhe@alkumuna.eu) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:51:04 +0200 From: Matthieu Volat <mazhe@alkumuna.eu> To: Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org> Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181017195104.1e2ac9ad@gramr.alkumuna.eu> In-Reply-To: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/0hqv/cPb1GSOz.8MvQCcs1r"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alkumuna.eu; s=default; t=1539798666; bh=wFmX6dcFt3m4xJwy5KmjAZxzxGrI2FA0YEQHxoe/Rgk=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=M17lKLU6DOQ63cEKclHL0wCBFetHoz1nOtJlLvvlhYAX1dJbP6U8YLi5hv6SpwFTwePnVMyeeVITGAtwCE8MzAFutjFm9iPw3CKyGJ+Sdl7y9SxMWtJWfb8Va9KUy4qpz8BbzpTYq5VcK8mssytUHNo2SCB4iY61bozko69z+Og= X-BeenThere: freebsd-net@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Networking and TCP/IP with FreeBSD <freebsd-net.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-net>, <mailto:freebsd-net-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-net/> List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-net@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-net-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net>, <mailto:freebsd-net-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:51:24 -0000 --Sig_/0hqv/cPb1GSOz.8MvQCcs1r Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:05:16 +0000 Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org> wrote: > >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< =20 >=20 > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. >=20 > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: >=20 > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe >=20 > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: >=20 > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl >=20 > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usabl= e. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) >=20 > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. >=20 > The full FCP-0101 is included below. >=20 > -- Brooks >=20 > --- > authors: Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org> > state: feedback > --- >=20 > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers >=20 > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > FreeBSD 13. >=20 > ## Problem Statement >=20 > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. >=20 > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. >=20 > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). >=20 > ## Proposed Solution >=20 > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete depreca= ted > devices. >=20 > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usabl= e. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) >=20 > ### Exceptions to removal >=20 > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. >=20 > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. >=20 > ### Device to be removed >=20 > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe >=20 > ## Final Disposition >=20 > TBD Would it be possible to set a wiki page/section in 12 that display the curr= ent status of removal of those devices? That might be easier for people to = look at their hardware actual state rather than try to trace every answer t= o this thread... 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