From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 2 03:28:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5758C106564A; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 03:28:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f54.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B6C8FC0A; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 03:28:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by laai10 with SMTP id i10so6126039laa.13 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 20:28:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=2B0/LZCDUKZmxIX2pIRzopczXH20MQLHPyVQSC5lwv4=; b=tQ2RvOnEtuCZ9uTzuxK7/O7lAXBkxVtezpFq6oDV4Htz2cjFeVf0X9o0o9uNg3M7eK DBvKN0rCCRfvFB5bmcbyIKrfCqI4S9zsKzoWiGoSJlqAXtmJknF33OjpG8gqVbL1dZ0w noK1bsvlUtDSUyyzaSf+oAxLGdQTlsMzWpdXXp2rPgP63VRo/bkVfluLWhcJzQ8veS1Q baAixxMOTUsvdPRh2v4wPIRWZ4ARJy6wzH1c6uhmoq2imnOiXYAFad/wvekKSG157hab +Yi7xZtg2d3jKXoX/xSzs/0nmfPwQfimVxouVw7AQ5EEZw7+MOIwCD712vgu8zN/0tH7 kr6w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.17.227 with SMTP id r3mr8906246lbd.41.1343878112540; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 20:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.133 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 20:28:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <612DA8A3-121E-4E72-9E5B-F3CBA9DEB7F7@bsdimp.com> References: <612DA8A3-121E-4E72-9E5B-F3CBA9DEB7F7@bsdimp.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:28:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: attilio@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers , Adrian Chadd , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: On cooperative work [Was: Re: newbus' ivar's limitation..] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 03:28:35 -0000 Hi, On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Aug 1, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>> Any interested party is very welcome to approach a developer and get >>> added to the developer summits. Plenty of the people at the most >>> recent developer summit weren't @freebsd.org committers - we had >>> plenty of representation from companies using FreeBSD. >>> >>> If you want to participate, just ask a friendly developer who is going >>> to the developer summit to sponsor you in going. You're pleasant in >>> person, so I'd have no problem sponsoring you if I am going to an >>> event. :) >>> >> I have a very deep, quasi-philosophical, trouble/problem with that >> whole idea of sponsor-requirement to attend a such meeting. There is >> just something which does not feel right about it. From my point of >> view, this is a matter of common sense, focus is gonna be very narrow >> and deeply technical. Attendee should go there only if they think they >> will give positive feedback. As for myself, I would not attend a >> developer meeting on the fiber-channel over infiniband optimization, >> but would attend a developer meeting on next-generation mbuf. >> >> Now, maybe I'll just push the door of some developer meeting I'd be >> interested in during next BSDCan, and see what happen :-) The outcome >> might be interesting to study in a social interaction, prisoner >> dilemma related, point-of-view. > > Given how ridiculously easy it is to get a proper invite, there's not need to be a jerk just to prove an obscure philosophical point about attendance. There's plenty of time to do that over the technical points being discussed. > Let me explain my thoughts: I do not recognize the committers legitimacy to give such invite, and to some extend, I do not recognize committers self-given legitimacy altogether. This do not mean I'd praised a structure-less project; quite the opposite actually. Starting from that, I will certainly not defer to anybody to request such invite or commit bit. Feel free to kick me out of the meeting room if you want to; I would have proved my point. Now, if invites are so easy to get, just get rid of it. It's a worthless, cumbersome item. - Arnaud ps: please, do not get me wrong, I would apply this policy to anybody who propose to help.