From owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 7 09:16:06 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F0616A468; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 09:16:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7076013C4CE; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 09:16:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17ACC1A3C1A; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 02:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [192.168.1.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668E2511B4; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 05:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 544CAC207; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 05:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 05:16:05 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: Alexander Leidinger Message-ID: <20070607091605.GB22049@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <200706061625.l56GP3lo043614@repoman.freebsd.org> <20070606200421.GA5453@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1181165084.76200.1.camel@ikaros.oook.cz> <20070606214112.GB6716@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1181173452.30365.20.camel@vonnegut> <20070607014450.GA17218@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20070607015538.GB23820@soaustin.net> <20070607102229.98t8ak5kmoo8woco@webmail.leidinger.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070607102229.98t8ak5kmoo8woco@webmail.leidinger.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: Kris Kennaway , cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, ports-committers@FreeBSD.org, Eric Anholt , Pav Lucistnik , cvs-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/x11/libX11 Makefile distinfo manpages pkg-plist ports/x11/libX11/files patch-src_ImUtil.c X-BeenThere: cvs-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: CVS commit messages for the entire tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 09:16:06 -0000 On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 10:22:29AM +0200, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting Mark Linimon (from Wed, 6 Jun 2007 > 20:55:38 -0500): > > >On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 09:44:50PM -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >>The FreeBSD project does not have the resources (or desire) to effectively > >>do full-time incremental X.org release engineering because of X.org > >>changes being continuously pushed into ports. > > Who decides what is going in and what not? What changes are allowed to > go in and which aren't (read: what's the definition of "important" > here)? "Fixes an application crash" or "Fixes a security vulnerability" would be good reasons. "Fixes some manpage typos" or "Adds a new cursor theme" or "Adds some linux-specific cruft" would not be :-) I don't want to have to be the guardian of this myself so I hope the x11@ mailing list will self-regulate with a bit of guidance. Basically everyone needs to be aware that commits to x.org core ports (those in the dependency path of xorg-libraries, basically) need to come with a clear justification of why the update is required, so if you are prepared to defend yourself with solid arguments on that point then you probably have a reason to proceed. > >The last I checked, i386 package builds take ~5 days, amd64 take ~7 days, > >sparc64 take more than 3 weeks. If we push point releases any faster than > >these dates, we will never have current packages. I think this would be > >a serious mistake. > > 4 weeks would be still too fast for changes to X11 ports, I assume. That kind of timescale should be manageable. > >I've spent a lot of time looking at why packages are so far behind the > >ports and the deep dependency trees are the major part of the problem. > > So switching to recording explicit dependencies only would give a > speed improvement in this case (why shall we rebuild an application > which depends on some gnome libs but doesn't make some X11 API calls > directly, the package will not change significantly)? Sometimes a port doesn't care when a dependency changes, sometimes it does - how do you tell those two cases apart with 100% accuracy? I don't think you can. Kris