From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 23 12:01:11 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22CB416A41C for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:01:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from aiolos.otenet.gr (aiolos.otenet.gr [195.170.0.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98FE143D5C for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:01:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (aris.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.226]) by aiolos.otenet.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with SMTP id j5NC17YU014954; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:01:08 +0300 Received: from orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (orion [127.0.0.1]) by orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5NC16Ub017197; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:01:06 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j5NC16hQ017196; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:01:06 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:01:05 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: cali Message-ID: <20050623120105.GA17140@orion.daedalusnetworks.priv> References: <42BA8F5D.5040504@pacific.net.sg> <011001c577e9$f2412c90$0201a8c0@SPECULUSHX1THE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <011001c577e9$f2412c90$0201a8c0@SPECULUSHX1THE> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Explaining FreeBSD features X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:01:11 -0000 On 2005-06-23 12:51, cali wrote: > > If they were like ultra-newbie, they might not even know how to access > the manual, but this is improbable. > > The idea is, the newbie gets repeatedly told "RTFM", so that > eventually they get the idea that they must work it out for themselves > because they develop this inner fear of asking for help and being > ridiculed, ie they don't want to portray themselves as a > "lamer". Usually it works. > > Sometimes there are people who will spout "RTFM" willy-nilly. I have > witnessed on several occassions (not on this list) of people spouting > "RTFM" when the manual in question did not contain the answer to the > question asked at all, thereby backfiring on the "RTFM" spouter and > resulting in self-ridicule. In such cases I believe that the spouter > has some self-esteem problem and likes to newbie-bash, or just hazards > a guess that the answer must be in the manual and automatically spouts > "RTFM". > > So the question bearer should state whether they have read the manual > first. Then if it turns out that the answer is in the manual, they > shall be ridiculed, resulting in them hopefully being much more > careful next time when they read the manual. > > Sometimes people ask simple questions, the answer is in the manual, > but reading the manual to find the answer is akin to reading a book to > discover how many pages it has. In such cases one feels that the > information asked should be somewhere else, not buried in a big > manual. It may be more useful in such cases to just answer the > question so it ends up in the mailing archive and comes up when > someone searches for it. I'm not watching the entire thread, so what I write below may seem a bit out of context. On the other hand, this particular post shows some of the few points I don't like about a stream of "RTFM" responses. You seem to overvalue "ridicule", IMHO. My intuition and experience with asking questions so far seems to be that it's usually a much better idea to give two-fold answers: - Actually point the user to a working solution (assuming there is one, of course). - Include relevant pointers to further documentation.