From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 11 02:36:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29967 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:36:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29962 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:36:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cracauer@cons.org) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by cons.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA09804; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:35:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981111113501.B9740@cons.org> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:35:01 +0100 From: Martin Cracauer To: Phillip Salzman , Martin Cracauer Cc: Yarema , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X desktop contest? + Desktop Env References: <19981110151438.A15464@cons.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Phillip Salzman on Tue, Nov 10, 1998 at 07:16:09PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm just adding noise in replying, but anyway... In , Phillip Salzman wrote: > > I don't think that makes sense. bash2 is now the "standard" shell for > > userfriendly Unix accounts (and works well, BTW). If we ship a > > slightly different default shell, we'll be flooded with PRs from > > people used to bash. And zsh has quite some subtle differences (IMHO, > > it is much worse than bash2). > > Bash is far from standard. Just a lot of people use it, and some > like it. sh and csh are the standards. Yesyesyes, but: - For basic sh functionality, zsh does not implement what Posix sais a /bin/sh should do while bash2 does pretty well. - When people are used to extended features, they are used to bash features. If they happend to use zsh or whatever they probably know how to install a shell themself. > Shipping with bash as the default shell is utterly stupid, > expecially for an OS like FreeBSD. I didn't say default shell. The /bin/sh that is used by the base system (startup, scripts etc.) shouldn't be bash. But if the 'easy2use' port is installed on the system, 'adduser' or a GUI equivalent should use bash2 as the default shell for new accounts. > > And I don't think the license matters that much in this case, > > either. A more comfortable shell is for those people who want it and > > as long as the system still runs when you remove it, a GPL software is > > fine. > > > The license has a lot to do with it. We cannot ship with bash > installed by default because we run off of the ``Berkeley Style'' license. > This differs a lot from GPL, and you cannot split an OS up into two > different licenses. > > We can, infact, offer it as a third party software enhancement. > Like we do now, via the ports/packages. Maybe something at the end of the > installation saying "Would you like to include a more userfriendly shell?" > or of the sort. You are misleaded. Would you please count the number of GPL programs we ship as part of the base system? Also, I want bash2 as default for new accounts if a certain port is installed, so bash2 could stay a port as well. > > ports//easy2use > > which depends on X11, bash2, fvwm2/95, some file browser, a stupid X > > editor, less, a Web browser with default to > > /usr/share/doc/handbook/index.html, Mail and News reader. Just use the > > most commonly used tools (see logfile from wcarchive for > > pub/FreeBSD/packages). > > > > not fvwm95, eww! ;) But something basically of the sort - but it > will be rolled out and designed for FreeBSD. Something like that. "Designed for FreeBSD"? The desktop I have in mind would be pretty OS neutral, except for some Chuck pictures here and there. And it's speed if 4 ghostscripts run simultaneous, of course :-) Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 Paper: (private) Waldstrasse 200, 22846 Norderstedt, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message