Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:27:32 +0100 From: Romain =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tarti=E8re?= <romain@blogreen.org> To: FreeBSD-wip-status@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-ports@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: TeXLive Message-ID: <20081225082732.GA62698@blogreen.org> In-Reply-To: <20081224232607.43ea938a@anthesphoria.net> References: <20081224131012.GA8392@blogreen.org> <20081224232607.43ea938a@anthesphoria.net>
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Hi Nikola!
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:26:07PM +0100, Nikola Le=C4=8Di=C4=87 wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:10:12 +0100
> Romain Tarti=C3=A8re <romain@blogreen.org> wrote:
>=20
> [...]=20
>=20
> > 1. TeXLive should be very modular
> >=20
> > It is then possible to run a version of XeTeX more recent
> > then the one provided with TeXLive (i.e. compile TeXLive
> > --without-xetex and depend on a port print/xetex-devel).
>=20
> [...]
>=20
> > If we consider that ports are build from source, it important to know
> > that TeXLive provide a single tarball for all applications binaries
> > source code. All the rest (macros, fonts, etc.) is provided as a lot
> > of small tarball. As a consequence, I see #1 as =C2=AB Split the
> > applications =C2=BB, and #2, #3 and #4 as =C2=AB Split the rest =C2=BB.=
But maybe
> > the question is more about =C2=AB Split both =C2=BB.
> >=20
> > For now, I do not intend to make the port that install all binaries a
> > meta-port (so no #1). It is quite huge and complex, include modified
> > version of libraries that are statically linked to the binaries, ...
> > well, I don't want to spend time on this right now (maybe in the
> > future but unsure =E2=80=94 However, contributions are welcomed).
>=20
> (I am the one who wrote #1.) What do you exactly mean by making a
> meta-port for binaries? To make a port for every binary group provided
> in their source tree? Sounds interesting, although what I meant there
> was to use the internal TeXLive build options, such as --without-xetex,
> so it's basically as simple as any of WITH_* options used in thousands
> of existing ports.
Well, my vision of TeXLive may be wrong (remember that I am just a lower
average user of LaTeX), but AFAIK it can be compared to a GNU/Linux
distro. You have TeX (the Kernel), and a set of packages. This set of
package is a choice of the distribution and has been tested extensively,
so installing a distro you are sure to have all pieces working together.
So it's just like installing say Debian GNU/Linux: you switch-on a
time-travelling machine (your software packages are OLD) _but_ you
should not run into trouble with some buggy package.
The counterpart of this is less frequent and bigger updates (Debian 4.0
has been updated 6 times since April 2007) while the FreeBSD ports tree
has been updated ~60 times yesterday (Okay, this does not include system
updates, but I'm speaking about software packages).
So the idea is that TeXLive is just a set of TeX, LaTeX, etc. ;
TeXLive-2008 being this set of packages at a defined version. So if the
ports tree provide these package at that version, it "is" TeXLive-2008.
We can therefore consider a port for each piece (TeX, XeTeX, etc.) ...
or multiple ports for each piece (AFAICR, you are interested in the
latest XeTeX):
ports
`-> print
|-> tex
|-> tex-texlive
|-> xetex
|-> xetex-devel
`-> xetex-texlive
print/texlive should depend on print/xetex-texlive that provide
TeXLive's version of XeTeX (maybe not the latest, maybe patched), but
you can have the TeXLive port not depend on it but rather the latest
stable or the development version.
Then you, don't really have TeXLive because you have a different version
of XeTeX, but it is somewhat similar, you know what I mean.
So basically, you can apply this example for all the set of applications
that compose TeXLive, and you have many *-texlive ports in you
ports-tree. A meta-port print/texlive can depend on all of them (with
options for building with non-default packages).
> > 3. One port per Package, grouping related packages (e.g. foo,
> > foo.source and foo.doc) (/[0-9]{4}/ ports) + meta-port for
> > Collections (84 meta-ports) + meta-port for Scheme (10 meta-ports)
> > + high granularity;
> > + no conflict;
> > - many ports.
>=20
> The main thing with TeXLive is that they make releases once a year. My
> opinion is that if we just stick with their releases -- we don't need
> any fine-grained work because such year-long cemented code somehow
> contradicts the idea of FreeBSD's flexible ports. The idea is to
> provide porters a flexible TeXLive base that can be enriched with many
> TeX-related projects that are not included in current TeXLive
> distribution (new and updated LaTeX packages, new versions of TeX
> extensions, etc).
Yes, I totally agree. But as explained, after a few days of hack for
having TeXLive building (and working), I don't have motivation to split
the binaries port now. Moreover, the reply of Hiroki Sato on this list
seems to indicate that he has already do that.
So I'm waiting for more info about this work for now.
> Once an initial TeXLive ports structure is committed, I'd like to see
> many porters grabbing parts of their particular areas of interest (or
> creating -devel ports) in order to provide users with versions newer
> than those initially included.
>=20
> It seems to me that your your proposal #3 supports this approach.
#1 can be combined with #2, #3 and #4, since #1 is about binaries, and
#2, #3, #4 about the rest.
Kind regards,
Romain
--=20
Romain Tarti=C3=A8re <romain@blogreen.org> http://romain.blogreen.or=
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