From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Jan 29 21:17:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB771FF07E for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2020 21:17:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org (outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org [54.186.57.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 487GX20f52z4CPZ for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2020 21:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1580332623; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=qcDQFdc9X5DvXPDJlUPbXmrVesHyzL5wwZ7frwbJ9RS63ea5PuQ7yWK1d8agi5ghsvY2uUAErcgjM Y+BK22Vv1JEQJUOtEwALGvfmP0SuptBNJjybxy9B3qE9V4kk0rp9lDRTaiUdaR1tUYLt2A5pfdfurQ fMcGgsKZOlxXf4bzvhPzK6SjFfu9IN0Bx+G2237BnqwKSwk8NsphvUhuCKebR6fk2GiTdow97EB1XN ylN4jLav1rYpaawpCf82i42X3+ZrqEhhCLqQd11grUTDawu/lTKnlF//+ikmxUMdW2BFpW3exM77LY XrlJlGKKaPzdBYFYeNA3r9PBP2IAh0w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=EXkYvQp3EKW7okOaJuBBFjJEAymxCPfYnES8VswgWhU=; b=NYD9Xeb6iJRUTB2o8X5g9jgbWj2lUNXEAbj4a7vXdL9H54DhyzDdpffHraZShc1rxjzT/0WmiyXYW Gg868s4Rckk7HG7yCo1gFS2vDJ5OYjGFH0i2Gn+avSfGQ85CvlBDu8SsCFWTwdGk6dP63h2KrAkp3S SSpvoNLUZqMpQux/cgOvPdplGWrsKgVILHy1RvQlIvhNbLwgpOZM0vehO9Ety4TTzAaCJxx/en8e0x 363Cuii9pybud8vV445iNu7nJoCO4gOZWIjMVS3wNmfqfoB+M3RriU7xgW4BBFs0V+pZLcOVkcgxpr 9TG8dTa2et9dbUFdPWo6vHRQ3XmrxEQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=EXkYvQp3EKW7okOaJuBBFjJEAymxCPfYnES8VswgWhU=; b=sgBrswZahs/RIXv/pXXjqHGEwlvw0wlrrlSj6VKdpPoMwZjNgwe5itKI0YcRTNNYtRAu6Vji65FsI kluhE/JFFcQSdeQ4du8KTOqHX+uM9tXLOkMxDojISvbhFl2bV0O6tu//ki9ijHp+ZNXm4V0A/cjbFN 47ihVte898VCZAoD/CwcuGYyR7dWNYmvB9+xaQC0cArDDuBI60pyGSXJkAavVlO0ddUH9wYyZevb03 rJ6onVgfNv+azCAgGxVycqXptLWD4zjoVjhPSeSOQwTFk36PkLt25xpSTzqvIutoFq5PT7lCYe8gyZ Ymd3uv/Muf0BimOl1Ss/V5U5q4vWdgw== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: affed1d1-42dc-11ea-b80d-052b4a66b6b2 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound3.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id affed1d1-42dc-11ea-b80d-052b4a66b6b2; Wed, 29 Jan 2020 21:17:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 00TLGx56017397; Wed, 29 Jan 2020 14:16:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 From: Ian Lepore To: Poul-Henning Kamp , Paul Mather Cc: freebsd-arm , Robert Clausecker , freebsd-arch Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 14:16:59 -0700 In-Reply-To: <78425.1580332298@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <17938.1575444597@critter.freebsd.dk> <20191204092402.GA82492@fuz.su> <78425.1580332298@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ASCII" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 487GX20f52z4CPZ X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.984,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.186.0.0/15, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 21:17:06 -0000 On Wed, 2020-01-29 at 21:11 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > -------- > In message , > Paul Mather writes: > > On Dec 4, 2019, at 4:24 AM, Robert Clausecker wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 07:29:57AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp > > > wrote: > > > > In message < > > > > CAPyFy2BXWPVOJo+GOf83sZFrPHE80-QvdHeWrhi+Tdj0KDnThg@mail.gmail.com > > > > >, Ed Maste writes: > > > > > > Indeed. For example, on a Raspberry Pi 3B, it takes multiple > > > days to > > > build world as the build must be done single threaded due to a > > > lack of > > > RAM (building LLVM is the worst offender here). > > I plugged in a "WD SSD Passport" USB disk, it supports BIO_DELETE and > performs so much better than a SD card, that swapon(8) is a good > idea. > > I will also repeat again: We ignore the RPi4 at our peril. > > RPi's are a LOT easier to get hold of for hackers and in particular > for educators. > > We may not want to use them ourselves, but we should keep that > part of the on-ramp open, in particular for young people. > Everybody loves to opine about how valuable rpi support is, but nobody steps up to do the work. (I'm not doing it because I'm firmly among the group who hates the platform, and I also disagree that there is any value to freebsd at all in supporting it. Indeed, quite the opposite, I think trying to support it is more expensive than we can afford and comes at the cost of supporting better hardware.) -- Ian