Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:09:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight@mail.ru> To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve Message-ID: <slrnj5atk2.7nm.vadim_nuclight@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> References: <slrnj4oiiq.21rg.vadim_nuclight@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <705869186.20110819012421@serebryakov.spb.ru> <slrnj4r3rl.2853.vadim_nuclight@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108190911480.93669@fledge.watson.org>
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Hi Robert Watson! On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 09:23:46 +0100 (BST); Robert Watson wrote about 'Re: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve': >>> everything is ``suitable'' for common tasks. And it is NOT ENOUGH >>> to be technically better. System should be far more superior to be >>> chosen, if it is not fancy/trendy. Yes, I belive, that FreeBSD is >>> better than Linux (at least on supported hardware) in server tasks, >>> more clear, more solid, etc. But it is ``only'' better, and is not >>> enough. >> >> No. The whole message was about that FreeBSD is worse in several areas, >> which masks out areas where it is better. If that will get fixed, we could >> talk about is it needing to be "far more" superior or not. But not before >> that as excuse to do nothing - no such excuse exists. > I'd point out that the key thing here is to produce, distribute, and as you > rightly point out *make easy*, new technologies that are transformative in a > way that makes FreeBSD compelling. So compelling that you'd rather switch OS > than not have it. Totally agreed. And: > has never been done before, giving security that has never been had before. > This required a new solution (although if you read our USENIX Security or > forthcoming CACM paper, it is grounded in some quite old but promising ideas) > that you can't find anywhere else. [...] > something that just isn't plausibe with other > existing sandboxing technologies. Obviously, we hope that the rest of the > world will adopt our APIs (and have spotted the OpenBSD folk working on this > already, and there's a Linux port out of Google), but I hope for a bit of a > run where you have to come to us to get this! And being the place APIs and > ideas like this come from is important. Absolutely right. I'll say more: the strength comes from having unique useful features which are pioneered here, actually new to industry and born here. Don't borrow from competitors but look at them and invent something better. I can give an example in network stack: while there are voices to adapt for us Linux' Netlink, we should get more usage of Netgraph here, rather adapting and being always second (looser, outsider). I've always liked FreeBSD for organicly synthesizing something new and "quite old but promising ideas". > It's worth observing that the success of Linux (and FreeBSD) to date comes out > of a few very basic but fundamental improvements in OS design: > - Tightly integrated networking > - Much cheaper than any competition > - Extremely stable compared to the competition There is one hidden, more fundamental fact: a compettion itself. The competition makes industry to innovate, and there are more innovations happening here (Linux and FreeBSD) than in Windows... or at least it looks so, thus being more attractive to users. > walking all over the competition. Buzz is a critical part of selling ideas in > open source (for better or worse), and there's no reason we can't play in that > game a bit while maintaining our boring and staid personalities :-). Sure. And taking surveys into account, we could just simply summarize: FreeBSD needs marketing :-) -- WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nuclight@mail.ru [Anti-Greenpeace][Sober FreeBSD zealot][http://nuclight.livejournal.com]
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