From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Dec 18 18:33:21 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39F8133A520 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:33:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545B3816E6 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:33:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 14260133A51F; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:33:21 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CACE5133A51D for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:33:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: from mailout04.t-online.de (mailout04.t-online.de [194.25.134.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mailout00.t-online.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56920816E5 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:33:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: from fwd21.aul.t-online.de (fwd21.aul.t-online.de [172.20.27.66]) by mailout04.t-online.de (Postfix) with SMTP id E989441A85D6; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:33:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from Stefans-MBP-WLAN.fritz.box (JlX5q8ZT8hrf+S9f0g1sa3W9zjW2E+ddL6+vtRq9v97wkWv7vvRuOpgkr-lWExEQh2@[93.200.55.147]) by fwd21.t-online.de with (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted) esmtp id 1gZKB5-26ErAG0; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:33:11 +0100 Subject: Re: A proposal for code removal prior to FreeBSD 13 To: Warner Losh , "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , George Neville-Neil References: <201812180109.wBI19eaK098408@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Stefan Esser Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=se@freebsd.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFVxiRIBCADOLNOZBsqlplHUQ3tG782FNtVT33rQli9EjNt2fhFERHIo4NxHlWBpHLnU b0s4L/eItx7au0i7Gegv01A9LUMwOnAc9EFAm4EW3Wmoa6MYrcP7xDClohg/Y69f7SNpEs3x YATBy+L6NzWZbJjZXD4vqPgZSDuMcLU7BEdJf0f+6h1BJPnGuwHpsSdnnMrZeIM8xQ8PPUVQ L0GZkVojHgNUngJH6e21qDrud0BkdiBcij0M3TCP4GQrJ/YMdurfc8mhueLpwGR2U1W8TYB7 4UY+NLw0McThOCLCxXflIeF/Y7jSB0zxzvb/H3LWkodUTkV57yX9IbUAGA5RKRg9zsUtABEB AAG0J1N0ZWZhbiBFw59lciAoRnJlZUJTRCkgPHNlQGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPokBVAQTAQoAPgIb AwULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAwIBAAIeAQIXgBYhBKNx6mWcC+zIK3FTE0frte9a/fVEBQJa8u+q BQkLJQETAAoJEEfrte9a/fVEOeMH/icmdK1eZQvB3U8quJo9VMaZsaTuCMbUE4NThyfsIvIm MCd+rb/yULmMYwqNfjyKB1x4ikR4x+94l+yJoz7K0Usks+eNKDmMGJM6pWWssTigaJubFdVd hVVC+C1QJi7JshYSib08uONoPmO4lv5Az0TDYGtsMzsES2sIlc62c9go5WPGYhQFRbX3Lk6y V6m8OHh+G9XGSj3oPO4UteRwu+SzTdOLunZBWG1wu34+IeZm663D+2gOppQLWpLa2qaTerqw THu377ayZ2B2LPJ5JkvkZeHYPkwDQ+b5PGn0UhfkxPnDVYki5F7qKxvQ5uq1/q9YaCX7mmOl H2yO7tgVsrW5AQ0EVXGJEgEIALEj9qCXMZVucjpcd3QxM/TlUr98m5viEd1z4tCnPUyRWcIC EVtj2h5xMH+2iB0q1+KWhq+NsWtvScmEmfHnsr7dJ1K677OdpDhKVaJk61eeRulFY1R4yb6C 1MMxK+WgYB+vvpG0UeyR0M4uBewcPvRsq4yGUHFQKtLAbMdoPTSryJA+ElnmK1vdY+rPcHgi OIMBZM7ahsPXC0C9K4e5SP9clGyIoMpbfHXdx9q+Rp3zVtlbhyk3BS/xccu/+9pk9ICXL6GR js2sNnJ0wxdU1DsAlC59a5MnSruwiZFwRnkQhr3x6wk97Lg7sLS9jjTnCN7LGlVmSmpOEMy6 uq1AWfUAEQEAAYkBPAQYAQoAJgIbDBYhBKNx6mWcC+zIK3FTE0frte9a/fVEBQJa8u+rBQkL JQEZAAoJEEfrte9a/fVEuesH/2DNxGWnHvWwMyiyhlQtafvDKwEn/wAgR8gHJFodB7emf8rA TnukH7MVttCoHtjN5lvv9RSBHjNTZls5wR/ANlwdRuPQHd8ZGxLe3S6IuUB3zDSwFltLGurO N2kOMhs5mTGyypSa+uw3rtQbUAVYf1oPbiR4FLtiM8FLyEvE95hX5fPq9Qvx9FmN79kmCIEw jDKPqDaUf/OR2fEF0LSIbXHEk4tNqCEwx5DIJ0fp5/z5UzICUAmwxyRs5O/Hre1jzPsMVyud Ml9t7UTOJGKVWwRory1PMnOFxN+iz5/d4FhYSKXF7kfMiFgol4LuWaxJRwbBrr71VGBrRy2a L1nw6Bc= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:33:05 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ID: JlX5q8ZT8hrf+S9f0g1sa3W9zjW2E+ddL6+vtRq9v97wkWv7vvRuOpgkr-lWExEQh2 X-TOI-MSGID: e87d5e48-2dda-45ab-bb52-b89590abb236 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 56920816E5 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:33:22 -0000 Am 18.12.18 um 17:00 schrieb Warner Losh: > Being too old isn't the only reason. That's one of the many reasons > articulated. The age of the code, the lack of innovation, the severe > technical deficiencies, the sparse use, the lack of maintainer, the opinion > of the domain experts in this field (Ian, myself, George and Poul-Hennig) > which say this is poo, the nature of the commits in the last decade > suggesting it's more of a drag on the tree than a help, etc. All strongly > suggest it's time to go. Don't get hung up on any one of these being > insufficient on its own: taken all together it's clear timed costs more > than the benefit it brings to the project. > >> 1) It is only used by a small group of people (we should >> define what the size of that group is that makes things >> deprecatable.) The non existant data we have that leads >> us to think it is ok to remove timed may be wrong, and >> the 17.4 commiters procedure is designed to help catch >> that. >> > 2) It has a reasonable replacement in ntpd >> 3) It has a small, but perhaps measurable maintance cost. >> (Though this well now be born by who ever if anyone >> bothers to maintain your git version) >> > > It will be. My github branch is complete now. All that it needs is someone > to create a port and I'll move it over to the project repo space. I'm > doubtful anybody will step up, but I've done the hard work of extraction. I do not use timed, but I'd be willing to create a port and perform the same steps as done for the removal of CTM from head. Just give me some time (I'm quite busy before the holidays), but I should have sufficient spare time within the next 2 weeks ... Regards, STefan