From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Mar 30 07:00:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49457277DAC for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2020 07:00:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f49.google.com (mail-lf1-f49.google.com [209.85.167.49]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48rNcv0MG6z4bs3; Mon, 30 Mar 2020 06:59:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f49.google.com with SMTP id x200so6030811lff.0; Sun, 29 Mar 2020 23:59:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ALb8iFnbqr06qx1Q+cN1rJEKbEFW16FwVdUBdzU1dQg=; b=NZFYpdTP1PMlk37S9OaVpHHfEPXqpxewbnSKP+0idYD4rpJxSzsiDMo0Q5O36tMhlI Q+VJtSmoSt5vb1d9C8mqqqDaaif/Wat5IyvmiB4RrPPlIx1UfPyJsP8To11I/el2Jlm2 2oxTvBqMdIl0DEEb5c5pMYiCR1MqdRtB26nvyCaVBsWabcJFolH4waZ0Bw9HiEyyi/wN gz4tGnTd8G9RTcvfCf+8mUJtFQkvr+BSto9Anv1yXfUKXx83tdAKjdcOUBgdynwPp/37 rEKyIPxcEG94J8moBlDkHuCi+4D9cS3l+njTrDUSolTMGS4dq2gasp7BCq4cnvSqx/pM 8G/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZR5XcZa02uCZbEVKsNGEAKJSLrRiYiVSFjVPSvoHYxTuxMZSPj sOn66U0pTjhAcxvaxELsDOsUg6qHSvE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKztgKpkL6wi2kufkY/WV197J8yt1m4H9jq/rc2nOBM4Za8bBWUUSIUxeIJ/iyJtK79X6W0CQ== X-Received: by 2002:a19:ccd3:: with SMTP id c202mr7022440lfg.103.1585551585662; Sun, 29 Mar 2020 23:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (east.meadow.volia.net. [93.72.151.96]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r21sm6569403ljp.29.2020.03.29.23.59.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Mar 2020 23:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: When will the FreeBSD (u)EFI work? To: Nathan Whitehorn Cc: FreeBSD Current , bsd-lists@bsdforge.com References: <318FDBAF-448F-4C55-A9A8-69D71A73E43B@me.com> <344e85545cfc47c9835fc5918e5b1dc1@udns.ultimatedns.net> <20200329211137.012a8fd62b58525b027bcfb6@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <40bacb99-d463-cbad-3ccf-b3ddd6856d10@bsdio.com> <675a41c7-46c1-f548-b285-e5ede55db76a@freebsd.org> <16728.1585537356@kaos.jnpr.net> <18df34fe-6256-6e68-ead5-481e83a501fe@freebsd.org> From: Andriy Gapon Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=avg@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFm4LIgBEADNB/3lT7f15UKeQ52xCFQx/GqHkSxEdVyLFZTmY3KyNPQGBtyvVyBfprJ7 mAeXZWfhat6cKNRAGZcL5EmewdQuUfQfBdYmKjbw3a9GFDsDNuhDA2QwFt8BmkiVMRYyvI7l N0eVzszWCUgdc3qqM6qqcgBaqsVmJluwpvwp4ZBXmch5BgDDDb1MPO8AZ2QZfIQmplkj8Y6Z AiNMknkmgaekIINSJX8IzRzKD5WwMsin70psE8dpL/iBsA2cpJGzWMObVTtCxeDKlBCNqM1i gTXta1ukdUT7JgLEFZk9ceYQQMJJtUwzWu1UHfZn0Fs29HTqawfWPSZVbulbrnu5q55R4PlQ /xURkWQUTyDpqUvb4JK371zhepXiXDwrrpnyyZABm3SFLkk2bHlheeKU6Yql4pcmSVym1AS4 dV8y0oHAfdlSCF6tpOPf2+K9nW1CFA8b/tw4oJBTtfZ1kxXOMdyZU5fiG7xb1qDgpQKgHUX8 7Rd2T1UVLVeuhYlXNw2F+a2ucY+cMoqz3LtpksUiBppJhw099gEXehcN2JbUZ2TueJdt1FdS ztnZmsHUXLxrRBtGwqnFL7GSd6snpGIKuuL305iaOGODbb9c7ne1JqBbkw1wh8ci6vvwGlzx rexzimRaBzJxlkjNfMx8WpCvYebGMydNoeEtkWldtjTNVsUAtQARAQABtB5BbmRyaXkgR2Fw b24gPGF2Z0BGcmVlQlNELm9yZz6JAlQEEwEIAD4WIQS+LEO7ngQnXA4Bjr538m7TUc1yjwUC WbgsiAIbIwUJBaOagAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRB38m7TUc1yj+JAEACV l9AK/nOWAt/9cufV2fRj0hdOqB1aCshtSrwHk/exXsDa4/FkmegxXQGY+3GWX3deIyesbVRL rYdtdK0dqJyT1SBqXK1h3/at9rxr9GQA6KWOxTjUFURsU7ok/6SIlm8uLRPNKO+yq0GDjgaO LzN+xykuBA0FlhQAXJnpZLcVfPJdWv7sSHGedL5ln8P8rxR+XnmsA5TUaaPcbhTB+mG+iKFj GghASDSfGqLWFPBlX/fpXikBDZ1gvOr8nyMY9nXhgfXpq3B6QCRYKPy58ChrZ5weeJZ29b7/ QdEO8NFNWHjSD9meiLdWQaqo9Y7uUxN3wySc/YUZxtS0bhAd8zJdNPsJYG8sXgKjeBQMVGuT eCAJFEYJqbwWvIXMfVWop4+O4xB+z2YE3jAbG/9tB/GSnQdVSj3G8MS80iLS58frnt+RSEw/ psahrfh0dh6SFHttE049xYiC+cM8J27Aaf0i9RflyITq57NuJm+AHJoU9SQUkIF0nc6lfA+o JRiyRlHZHKoRQkIg4aiKaZSWjQYRl5Txl0IZUP1dSWMX4s3XTMurC/pnja45dge/4ESOtJ9R 8XuIWg45Oq6MeIWdjKddGhRj3OohsltKgkEU3eLKYtB6qRTQypHHUawCXz88uYt5e3w4V16H lCpSTZV/EVHnNe45FVBlvK7k7HFfDDkryLkCDQRZuCyIARAAlq0slcsVboY/+IUJdcbEiJRW be9HKVz4SUchq0z9MZPX/0dcnvz/gkyYA+OuM78dNS7Mbby5dTvOqfpLJfCuhaNYOhlE0wY+ 1T6Tf1f4c/uA3U/YiadukQ3+6TJuYGAdRZD5EqYFIkreARTVWg87N9g0fT9BEqLw9lJtEGDY EWUE7L++B8o4uu3LQFEYxcrb4K/WKmgtmFcm77s0IKDrfcX4doV92QTIpLiRxcOmCC/OCYuO jB1oaaqXQzZrCutXRK0L5XN1Y1PYjIrEzHMIXmCDlLYnpFkK+itlXwlE2ZQxkfMruCWdQXye syl2fynAe8hvp7Mms9qU2r2K9EcJiR5N1t1C2/kTKNUhcRv7Yd/vwusK7BqJbhlng5ZgRx0m WxdntU/JLEntz3QBsBsWM9Y9wf2V4tLv6/DuDBta781RsCB/UrU2zNuOEkSixlUiHxw1dccI 6CVlaWkkJBxmHX22GdDFrcjvwMNIbbyfQLuBq6IOh8nvu9vuItup7qemDG3Ms6TVwA7BD3j+ 3fGprtyW8Fd/RR2bW2+LWkMrqHffAr6Y6V3h5kd2G9Q8ZWpEJk+LG6Mk3fhZhmCnHhDu6CwN MeUvxXDVO+fqc3JjFm5OxhmfVeJKrbCEUJyM8ESWLoNHLqjywdZga4Q7P12g8DUQ1mRxYg/L HgZY3zfKOqcAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBL4sQ7ueBCdcDgGOvnfybtNRzXKPBQJZuCyIAhsM BQkFo5qAAAoJEHfybtNRzXKPBVwQAKfFy9P7N3OsLDMB56A4Kf+ZT+d5cIx0Yiaf4n6w7m3i ImHHHk9FIetI4Xe54a2IXh4Bq5UkAGY0667eIs+Z1Ea6I2i27Sdo7DxGwq09Qnm/Y65ADvXs 3aBvokCcm7FsM1wky395m8xUos1681oV5oxgqeRI8/76qy0hD9WR65UW+HQgZRIcIjSel9vR XDaD2HLGPTTGr7u4v00UeTMs6qvPsa2PJagogrKY8RXdFtXvweQFz78NbXhluwix2Tb9ETPk LIpDrtzV73CaE2aqBG/KrboXT2C67BgFtnk7T7Y7iKq4/XvEdDWscz2wws91BOXuMMd4c/c4 OmGW9m3RBLufFrOag1q5yUS9QbFfyqL6dftJP3Zq/xe+mr7sbWbhPVCQFrH3r26mpmy841ym dwQnNcsbIGiBASBSKksOvIDYKa2Wy8htPmWFTEOPRpFXdGQ27awcjjnB42nngyCK5ukZDHi6 w0qK5DNQQCkiweevCIC6wc3p67jl1EMFY5+z+zdTPb3h7LeVnGqW0qBQl99vVFgzLxchKcl0 R/paSFgwqXCZhAKMuUHncJuynDOP7z5LirUeFI8qsBAJi1rXpQoLJTVcW72swZ42IdPiboqx NbTMiNOiE36GqMcTPfKylCbF45JNX4nF9ElM0E+Y8gi4cizJYBRr2FBJgay0b9Cp Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 09:59:43 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <18df34fe-6256-6e68-ead5-481e83a501fe@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48rNcv0MG6z4bs3 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of agapon@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=agapon@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; MAILSPIKE_FAIL(0.00)[49.167.85.209.rep.mailspike.net:query timed out]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[49.167.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.31)[ip: (-0.30), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-0.76), asn: 15169(-0.46), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[96.151.72.93.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 07:00:21 -0000 On 30/03/2020 06:11, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > The problem then is that we have treated loader as a > continuously-updatable part of the OS, like the kernel, and the update > system and development process assumes they get updated in sync. I don't think that we ever did that, consciously. Installing loader in installworld is / was a brain damage. Anyway, my main point is that whenever we made significant changes to loader->kernel "interface" we always tried to maintain backward compatibility. And one of the reasons was that installworld != installkernel. -- Andriy Gapon