From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Nov 7 16:45:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02578 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:45:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02570; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:45:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA05147; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:14:45 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA02935; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:14:43 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981108111442.Y499@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:14:42 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Sean Kelly Cc: nik@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TeX problems; Doc. Proj. needs you! References: <19981107211415.05931@nothing-going-on.org> <19981108100712.V499@freebie.lemis.com> <3644E3C4.D41B60C5@plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3644E3C4.D41B60C5@plutotech.com>; from Sean Kelly on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 05:20:20PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 7 November 1998 at 17:20:20 -0700, Sean Kelly wrote: >> ... There's >> something about stuff which has been formatted with TeX which shouts >> "look at me, I've been formatted with TeX". > > Funny, I'd say the same thing about documents coming out of *roff. Examples? I've been using *roff for a while now, and I still can't recognize them. Of course, you can end up recognizing specific macro sets, but that's not the same thing. > But with either system, it's possible, with enough work, to create > output that doesn't reveal its origins. Agreed. But I've never seen anybody go to the trouble in TeX. To quote "Porting UNIX Software": More than anywhere else in porting, it is good for your state of mind to steer clear of TeX internals. The assumptions on which the syntax is based differ markedly from those of other programming languages. For example, identifiers may not contain digits, and spaces are required only when the meaning would otherwise be ambiguous (to TeX, not to you), so the sequence fontsize300 is in fact the identifier fontsize followed by the number 300. On the other hand, it is almost impossible to find any good solid information in the documentation, so you could spend hours trying to solve a minor problem. I have been using TeX frequently for years, and I still find it the most frustrating program I have ever seen. [1] [1] When I wrote this sentence, I wondered if I wasn't overstating the case. Mike Loukides, the author of Programming with GNU Software, reviewed the final draft and added a single word: Amen. > For example, many are surprised that the invoices I print for consulting > work come out of plain TeX. For a sample, see: > > http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/sampleInvoice.ps I'm not. I used to do that too, but I changed to *roff quite some time after changing everything else. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message