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Date:      Thu, 04 Apr 2002 13:21:15 -0500 (EST)
From:      John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Mikhail Teterin <mi@aldan.algebra.com>
Cc:        anarcat@anarcat.dyndns.org, rwatson@FreeBSD.org, jkh@winston.freebsd.org, winter@jurai.net, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, obrien@FreeBSD.org, pst@pst.org, des@ofug.org, imp@village.org
Subject:   Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/sysinstall install.c installUpgrade
Message-ID:  <XFMail.20020404132115.jhb@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <200204041754.g34HsNnF005867@aldan.algebra.com>

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On 04-Apr-2002 Mikhail Teterin wrote:
>>> A package is, typicly, downloaded or found on a CD -- in both cases
>>> the file can be seeked around. IMHO, in this case space should be
>>> given priority in the eternal "time vs. space" argument.
> 
>> In the case of a fat package you wouldn't actually download the parts
>> of the package you didn't need if you got the package via a bitstream
>> that you could seek on.
> 
> Well, when installation is from a CD or other such media, your argument
> is lost -- I already have the seekable file. So, it seems, the new
> design is addressing installations over the network.

Well, if I have a fat package (say I have a package with binaries for multiple
archs) then having a seekable file format (tar is not as efficient for this)
means you can still skip over parts of the package you don't need and only read
the bits off disk that you do need.  Fat binaries such as these would likely
only be used for network installs, but for the vim/vim-lite (or
foo/foo-gnome/foo-kde/foo-gtk/foo-qt/foo-gtk-esound/etc.) case, you would still
not have to decompress and read through all of the gvim binary to find the
vim-lite binary like you would if you used tar.

>> No, the fact is that we have thought about some of the problems the
>> current scheme doesn't address and which you haven't apparently
>> thought about how to address either.
> 
> Mmm, sounds familiar :( Can you explain, what those are, or point me to
> the mail archive, where this was discussed?

Most of it was not discussed on the mail archive, but some of it was in a post
Jordan made to arch I think.  Most of this is out of Jordan's head and stuff
that I got from personal conversations.  There might also be some discussions
about this on the libh@ archives.  However, some thoughts:

The new package system will move much of the smarts into the package and out of
the package tools.  This means that each package uses scripts to install and
configure itself.  For example, parts of a package can be conditionally
installed.  Thus, the way a new package will work is that the package tool will
simply locate the 'install' script and run it (in a sort of sandbox so the
admin can arbitrarily limit what items a script may perform, you could use this
to do the equivalent of a make -n or some such for example).  The install
script can then also use hte libh UI tools to interface with the user to ask
for preferences, etc.  Given that, it seems (or seemed at least) desirable to
not require one to have to download or read in and decompress the entire
archive.  Rather, it would be nice to only have to fetch the actual install
script and whatever bits it then requested during the install process.  This
allows for a much more flexible interface for packages than just untarring
binaries into a directory.  For example, almost all of the current
configuration stuff in sysinstall would move into the configure scripts for the
packages representing the base system (perhaps a bin package?)  Sysinstall
would then basically just become a package engine used to install both 3rd party
packages (like those ports would generate) and base system packages.

The argument for .zip then dissolves down to the "requirement" that we be able
to extract only certain bits of a package w/o touching other bits and also the
desire to not have to write a new compression program.  However, you can feel
free to step up and go help the libh folks out as I'm sure they would
appreciate it.

-- 

John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org>  <><  http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!"  -  http://www.FreeBSD.org/

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