Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 12:53:17 -0700 From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> To: Maxim Sobolev <sobomax@FreeBSD.ORG> Cc: Will Andrews <will@csociety.org>, Simon 'corecode' Schubert <corecode@corecode.ath.cx>, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: package tools into ports/ (was: Re: Bzipped?) Message-ID: <3D77B62D.B8414858@softweyr.com> References: <20020901142653.A32415@capable.rogards.com> <20020901191937.GI87971@leviathan.inethouston.net> <20020902103215.36ae8e3b.corecode@corecode.ath.cx> <20020902085654.GH2072@procyon.firepipe.net> <3D7445D3.DAA2C9B9@softweyr.com> <20020903100258.068fb3ab.corecode@corecode.ath.cx> <20020903121413.GN2072@procyon.firepipe.net> <20020903130237.GB8010@vega.vega.com>
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Maxim Sobolev wrote:
>
> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 05:14:13AM -0700, Will Andrews wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 10:02:58AM +0200, Simon 'corecode' Schubert wrote:
> >
> > Hitting two birds with one stone, so to speak.
> >
> > > > OK, how do you install the package tools package onto the system if it
> > > > doesn't come with package tools?
> > > >
> > > > Please note that I'm all for having the package tools in ports, because it
> > > > will make the one last feature I want to add to them ever so much easier
> > > > to build, but we do have to fix this chicken vs. egg probem first.
> >
> > Simple. We keep the pkg_install stuff in the src tree. That
> > way, everyone will always have a minimal version installed with
> > the system. If needed, they can then install a newer version via
> > the ports tree. If that newer version is installed, bsd.port.mk
> > will use it instead.
> >
> > Please see NetBSD for an example that they have done for 4 years.
> > It's such a great idea I'm not sure why nobody in FreeBSD did it.
>
> I am also thinking about something like that for a quite some time,
> but it is not quite straightforward to implement correctly. Yes, you
> can add version reporting into pkg_info and make bsd.port.mk detecting
> it and installing a new version from ports if it is too outdated.
>
> The problem with such approach is that if you will overwrite older
> versions in /usr/sbin with newer ones, it will work, but only until
> the next build/installworld (for example if user runs security branch
> and new patchlevel is available requiring full world rebuild), when
> the newer ones will be replaced by old ones again. Sure, executing
> `make something' in ports tree will put things in order again, but
> what if before that the user will try to delete some package or add
> a new one using pkg_delete/pkg_add directly?
>
> Another approach is to install pkg_tools package into /usr/local, but
> extend tools in the base system to check version of their counterparts
> in /usr/local (if installed) and turn themselves into a wrappers if
> ones in /usr/local are newer than ones in the /usr. This approach is
> better in the long run, since it allows to not worry about system
> upgrades, but creates 'chiken and egg' problem, since adding
> checking/wrapping functionality would require to change pkg_install
> tools.
>
> Therefore, IMO some combined approach is necessary. I have the following
> (very preliminary) vision of what needs to be done to solve the
> problem:
>
> 1. Assign some form of version number to pkg_install tools. This
> number should be monotonically increased each time when new
> functionality is added or older functionality used in bsd.port.mk
> is changed. Add appropriate reporting routine.
>
> 2. Add wrapping functionality into pkg_install tools: on startup
> of any tool check that a configuration file in some pre-defined
> location exsists, read it, compare versions here and there and
> execve() specified file if it is newer, otherwise continue running.
> Format of file could be very simple, say one line with two words:
> the first is version number and the second is installation base, i.e.
> /var/db/pkg_install.wrap:
>
> 123455 /usr/local/sbin
>
> 3. Create an appropriate pkg_tools port, which will install latest
> version of the tools and generate configuration file described above
> when installed FreeBSD version supports finctionality described
> in (1). If it doesn't, then the port whould just overwrite versions of
> pkg tools in /usr/sbin with newer versions and warn user about the
> need to reinstall the port after buildworld/installworld.
>
> 4. Add bsd.port.mk bits and pieces for installing that pkg_tools port
> if system version is too old.
>
> I hope that this would be useful for you. Any comments or questions
> are appreciated.
A very interesting approach. My thinking was simply to plop pkg_add or
pkg_add on the install CD-ROM and have it install the mandatory pkg_tools
package from the CD-ROM every time. The answer to the chicken and egg
problem is to have a pre-existing system which can build this version of
pkg_add. This would go for the 'mfs root' floppy for network installations
as well.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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