From owner-freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 25 01:00:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DD1106566C for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 01:00:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4238D8FC08 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 01:00:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from park.js.berklix.net (p5DCBD275.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.210.117]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id p5P0eiq7066511; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 00:40:44 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by park.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p5P0efsu009308; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 02:40:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5P0eKa6090766; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 00:40:26 GMT (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201106250040.p5P0eKa6090766@fire.js.berklix.net> To: eadler@FreeBSD.org From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://www.berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://www.berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 24 Jun 2011 20:38:43 GMT." <201106242038.p5OKchwh016097@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 02:40:20 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, jerry@seibercom.net, "Julian H. Stacey" , rsimmons0@gmail.com Subject: Re: conf/158238: [patch] motd[5]: Tell people to subscribe questions@ before posting. X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Bug reports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 01:00:45 -0000 Hi eadler@FreeBSD.org cc rsimmons0@gmail.com, jerry@seibercom.net Reference: > From: eadler@FreeBSD.org > Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 20:38:43 GMT > Message-id: <201106242038.p5OKchwh016097@freefall.freebsd.org> eadler@FreeBSD.org wrote: > Synopsis: [patch] motd[5]: Tell people to subscribe questions@ before posting. > > State-Changed-From-To: open->closed > State-Changed-By: eadler > State-Changed-When: Fri Jun 24 20:30:58 UTC 2011 > State-Changed-Why: > 1) questions@ is open by design. postmaster@ has not said that -questions will be becoming a closed list. If after further discussion postmaster@ agrees this PR could be re-opened > 2) FreeBSD prefers patches in the unified diff format not context diff format. > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=158238 Sorry. Your closure is wrong. Please revoke & attach this. Grounds for objection: Your consideration was partial & inadequate. You ignored: Description: .... ensure newbies get all replies, (as some respondents just reply to lists, not to all previous thread participants, & some newbies might not realise. ) Your logic failed: Re. your "postmaster@ has not said that" Equally "Postmaster@ team have not said they never will" - Far as I know. - Newbies receive /etc/motd changes once per release, list policy could / might need to change any time, perhaps half a year later, best edit /etc/motd, ready for possible mail list change later. - Some subscribers of questions@ may or not have recently asked postmaster@ to consider options, but I have not asked. You do not state if you have asked or know, or are or not subscribed to questions@ to know. (I am subscribed). Perhaps you don't know, so history: When questions@ was founded it provided dual benefit: officialy "Help newbies with singular address" & more cycnicaly: "Keeps simple repetitive newbie questions off other lists" ;-) - Questions@ traffic's changed since then, a lot noisier in several ways, +spam, +more skilled users, +some posters that other posters might like to see lose write access, - but thats not possible on an open list. Ask opinions from other subscribers inc. eg rsimmons0@gmail.com & jerry@seibercom.net - When postmaster@ is asked to consider questions@, whether it could be subscription or open to every sender, presumably postmaster@ will want to ask questions@ &/or read archives to get a picture of current circumstance. Future list policy must Not be pre-empted by a singular commiter prematurely closing a send-pr. - The diff does not force / require / assume anything of postmaster. Does not block posters. Does encourage people to subscribe, Does give FreeBSD the option to later change if needed, without losing postings for months between possible list change & when newbies finally update to a new release with /etc/motd advising subscribe. If you had been constructive or given some thought, you could have offered even just a one word amendement improvement, eg from ! If you still have a question or problem, please subscribe (free) via ! http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/subscribe/freebsd-questions then take ! the output of `uname -a', to ! If you still have a question or problem, Preferably subscribe (free) via ! http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/subscribe/freebsd-questions then take ! the output of `uname -a', As you did not do that either, here's a new diff -u patch. ----- --- motd.org 2011-06-25 01:59:30.000000000 +0200 +++ motd 2011-06-25 01:57:41.000000000 +0200 @@ -13,9 +13,10 @@ http://www.FreeBSD.org/search/. If the doc distribution has been installed, they're also available formatted in /usr/share/doc. -If you still have a question or problem, please take the output of -`uname -a', along with any relevant error messages, and email it -as a question to the questions@FreeBSD.org mailing list. If you are +If you still have a question or problem, please preferably subscribe (free) +via http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/subscribe/freebsd-questions then take +the output of `uname -a', along with any relevant error messages, and email +it as a question to the questions@FreeBSD.org mailing list. If you are unfamiliar with FreeBSD's directory layout, please refer to the hier(7) manual page. If you are not familiar with manual pages, type `man man'. ----- Please revert your ill advised closure, Remove the diff -c patch, insert diff -u patch, & leave for others to consider. Thank You. Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below, not above; Indent with "> "; Cumulative like a play script. Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable.