From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 14:40:32 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C54F210ACDEB for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:40:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd41.google.com (mail-io1-xd41.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45B0271892 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:40:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd41.google.com with SMTP id x26-v6so8068427iog.11 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 07:40:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LkziUTj8zMkhYNInm0s1stIVGTnQCjeGBy8IeWzl/R4=; b=QG4cf20BsAEKLUPjSumFM5IxUwDJ94auIsVzS+BULDZnYn6YYb1fJQwc5t6YWBokNa 53PxVTeuOPJhxLR4yCc5eYnBokIrHMyGSrTaN4AwzPpLhEREOhZYRzoH3x69361j/1wj YLcT8KAInY6FSN8cwSsbK0QdBkk5KSBKBEhmNKvZUiTnf0tgjxN3Iqv9PAoHmCDIThBD yMHQL8HEFjBrRWafaQiZZL0jq3KaeTpVmO41IgtsoBfOczSqX4q7K05kk+16qVTs1dRK 1F0FdSTTfDmGXEuCkErv2rxM+AOXQc3VJFuElzhe0YqwhVeAvI1w+JdVfziXh/cILfz2 NrWg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LkziUTj8zMkhYNInm0s1stIVGTnQCjeGBy8IeWzl/R4=; b=rHgkbGgihcxy915UKKvrVQzBU7NKIUI+KVHt57zXypdqdy/v7Now026Qbnt6lDLpM7 fWWwLLHZ5zOnlL7nK/pCB786abkE0DAOrj6VeXPGU42dbQqV5kRO+ZQlfF08vz+O3zx0 GMUXpf2lfJ8sOII0g4o+O5ms2MJd0ULva8szSgja5ApeR0vhTqOu98Dpwv5b+WmCE3UK mT54snorylRAQapeaK8NMSL7QjfTa85SrE4Krt9z1nS8dMyCATe47MUOfYcAax9HnTDC a88pRwaxXKIeOU2196cnuPH11vx6w4tsapcuCS/XRJw078+BpXyjsQGGvgiVFp4WoUF2 SSJw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoh89hEviS8Q5YNkp/mRWFozB4Wy2uJC3Ve3b3buoetyIDZIn/47 6v+RG4d8uL1tnrSJjlqfwIz+9KYmmwzp/+up/jxAc42h X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62bMQW4WAYAxGx9g4DSYkLG1cSq95B+JermRquaXXHhzKL/4Ipi8K5dH2Y3R6rye6qc4WfRX84Fhqi6QerKUEQ= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:3902:: with SMTP id g2-v6mr4668757ioa.168.1538664031521; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 07:40:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181003215316.GA12527@fuz.su> <20181004142638.GA72667@fuz.su> In-Reply-To: <20181004142638.GA72667@fuz.su> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:40:20 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: fuz@fuz.su Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:40:33 -0000 Well, I'd wager its 100 cards that nobody is currently using (ed) has no value. Even 1000 different cards or 10,000. The ed(4) driver likely supported in excess of 1000 different cards because so many people made ne-2000 compatible cards... in the early 1990s. However, since nobody has ISA or PC Card (not CardBus) interfaces anymore (those machines topped out around 32-64MB, which FreeBSD no longer works well on), the benefit to the project is quite low. Even the 'newer' PC Card versions that were 10/100 couldn't get more than about 10-12Mbps due to ISA/PC Card bus speed limitations. The PCI versions were never popular (I had to hunt a bunch for them 10 years ago when I was finishing up my activities on the driver for my vast PC Card collection to find an example to test), and even it had trouble beyond 20Mbps because it wasn't DMA'd. The ED driver was a solid driver last time I tried it, but when I can plug in dozens of 100Mbps or 1Gbps cards into the same CardBus slot and those cost < $10 now, there's very little return on programmer time to keeping this one going. However, having said all that, if we can document 5 real users of this card on machines running FreeBSD 12, it will meet the criteria for remaining, just like any other driver.... So far we've found 0, while we have found many other users of other drivers. Warner On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 8:27 AM Robert Clausecker wrote: > I have a machine with FreeBSD 2.2.8 running with such an interface, but > none with FreeBSD 12, so you do have a point here. However, I am not > sure if it's a good idea to kill this driver; it's good for over 100 > different cards according to the man page, so surely there are some > users left. > > Yours, > Robert Clausecker > > On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 05:45:18PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 3:54 PM Robert Clausecker wrote: > > > > > I request that ed(4) > > > > > > How many FreeBSD 12.0 machines do you have running with this interface? > > > > QEMU does support this interface, but also supports the Intel E1000 > series > > (em/igb), so it's not necessarily needed for QEMU. > > > > Warner > > -- > () ascii ribbon campaign - for an 8-bit clean world > /\ - against html email - against proprietary attachments > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >