From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 13 15:47:17 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D668E403 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 15:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from pmta2.delivery6.ore.mailhop.org (pmta2.delivery6.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.129.228]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 98E148E7 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 15:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [73.34.117.227]) by outbound2.ore.mailhop.org (Halon Mail Gateway) with ESMTPSA; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 15:47:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from revolution.hippie.lan (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t5DFl94u011481; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 09:47:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1434210429.1415.65.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: svn commit: r284198 - head/bin/ls From: Ian Lepore To: David Chisnall Cc: Steve Kargl , Alexander Kabaev , Marcel Moolenaar , src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 09:47:09 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <201506100127.t5A1RdX6051959@svn.freebsd.org> <20150612204309.11dd3391@kan> <20150613024916.GA98218@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1434208622.1415.57.camel@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.12.10 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 15:47:17 -0000 On Sat, 2015-06-13 at 11:38 -0400, David Chisnall wrote: > On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that > > could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems > > completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're > > well on our way. > > There is a lot of heckling and unhelpful hyperbole in this thread. Reading the xo_emit format strings takes a little bit of getting used to, but the same is true of printf - it˘s just that we˘re already used to printf. The structured parts (xo_open_container, xo_close_container and friends) are clear and descriptive. The changes are fairly invasive, but the benefits are also very large for anyone who is wanting to automate administration of FreeBSD systems. > > If you have suggestions for how the libxo APIs could be improved, then please let us know - Phil is very reception to suggestions but objections along the lines of Ħit˘s not what I˘m used to and changes sometimes break things so we should never have changes˘ are not helpful. > "This is a piece of crap that needs to be excised from the system and done a different way" is useful input whether you agree with it or not. The idea that someone does not have the right to point out a huge mistake simply because they don't have a patchset in hand is pure BS. But, this is what you get when a disagreement about design is "solved" by someone pointing out that project policy has always been "he who commits first wins the design discussion" and that's pretty much what happened when all of this was being discussed. -- Ian