Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:38:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Brennan Stehling <brennan@offwhite.net>
To: richard childers <fscked@pacbell.net>
Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>, Aaron Hill <hillaa@hotmail.com>, gferris@mail.unam.na, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: A retraction & correction ('Was: Re: Pimping FreeBSD Information (was: 'Order')')
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103010913300.10196-100000@home.offwhite.net>
In-Reply-To: <3A9DF19C.1FC6F993@pacbell.net>
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I agree with much of what you say, but I think it is fine to push certain things at times. With each post of any email going anywhere I have my signature which includes the address of my BSD website. It is subtle, but prefered according to an etiquette piece about interacting on a mailing list. A mailing list like this one is meant to be a forum where people can find help in anything to do with FreeBSD. This often comes in asking and answering questions, but if someone can suggest another resource which would be helpful, I appreciate that as well. A freely viewable website is one thing, but I suppose a book you have to pay for is another. To suggest a book and withhold any help would be a bad way to go, but to offer links to various resources online, that is another. I am not direclty addressing the isue with Tim. This also speaks to the spam on the list the other day. Yesterday there was another question about lockmailbox. It is a sendmail problem with FreeBSD and I had the same problem a while back. If you look at the achive you will see my response. I offered the intial help that I could and then dug a little and found the answer. Since I had spent weeks finding the answer for myself initially I did not mind taking 15 minutes to get the answer for the list. But as I answered the questions, I did provide a link to my little BSD website. http://www.greasydaemon.com/cgi/udmsearch/gd.cgi?q=lockmailbox&m=any&ps=10&o=0 There is a certain amout of teaching people to fish going on with these kind of suggestions while leading them in the right information. I am by no way a FreeBSD guru like some, but I can help some people sometimes. And I do not make money with my website. It is simply hosted on my development FreeBSD server. I hope there are soon more FreeBSD and *BSD websites out there, but I also hope the quality of content on several BSD websites do improve. I am seeing the Linux rush is over and more eyes are turning to BSD. I hope we can welcome the newcomers to our community and make it easier by providing not only great software, but assistance in using it. Brennan Stehling - software developer and system administrator my projects: home.offwhite.net (free personal hosting) www.greasydaemon.com (bsd search) On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, richard childers wrote: > I'd like to correct my previous statement. > > A quick review of the archives shows that Ted Mittelstaedt has contributed > copiously to freebsd-questions in the recent past. > > I didn't do a precise breakdown but I did not see a lot of references to pushing > his book in the body of publically posted messages; this is a recent phenomenon, > as far as I can tell. > > I didn't see any detailed answers, however, to others' questions; a detailed > answer is one that includes pathnames, syntax details, and at the very least a > reference to the relevant man pages, by my book. I would expect that level of > detail from someone whom had written a book; wouldn't you? > > (Maybe I didn't look hard enough. I suppose I can drill down a few more layers > and do a statistical summary, easily enough ... at the expense of some time, I > have thus far refused to invest.) > > But this is the heart of my objection; one should contribute one's knowledge > freely if one is going to participate in this forum; one should not use it as a > springboard for one's business interests, at least publically; and I would > discourage using private communications arising out of public exchanges as a > basis for offering one's book, also. After all, in that direction lies the next > step, which is collecting the addresses of all participants and targeting them > with spam (which appears to be happening, by the way; something to think about > next time one includes freebsd-questions in the Cc: field). > > ... and I saw lots of questions from Ted, himself, asking for someone else to > explain what he did not understand. Hmmm ... does FreeBSD get a slice of the > book's profits? After all, they are providing a forum through which this > expertise is being gained, be facilitating access to the collective expertise. > > I strongly believe in parity as a principle applicable in realsm outside of > telecommunications or error correction; I believe it has applications in public > policy and public life as well. I have already suggested to Ted Mittelstaedt > (privately) that this was inappropriate behavior. I don't think Ted took my > objection seriously. > > I suppose I could just unsubscribe, or implement spam filters that filtered > anything with "Mittelstaedt" in it; but what a price to pay, and what a precedent > to set (and follow); where does this end? > > So I'd like to retract my statements, below; but I would like to encourage Ted to > post some of these fabulous tips he's pushing everyone to invest their money in > buying ... at the expense of the FreeBSD server ... and at the expense of the > social fabric that composes the FreeBSD community ... of which I am a member. > > > -- richard > > > richard childers wrote: > > > Maybe you should offer to send free copies to people ... or quote from your > > book, instead of just referring to it. > > > > I've seen two references to this book ... two attempts to pander it, to pimp > > it, to sell it, to drum up orders for it ... but I don's see you, Ted, > > contributing any expertise. Just sales advertisements. > > > > Maybe I'm wrong ... maybe you've offered help, quoted copiously from the > > book, time and again. Maybe there are entire chapters posted somewhere where > > people can read them, and use them, without lining your pockets. > > > > If I am, I'm sure others - not you, Ted - will inform me. And I will duly > > apologize. > > > > But so far you seem indistinguishable from any other parasite whom has > > latched upon another's free software as a way to make money. > > > > ... So, distinguish yourself. Post some free material. Quit pandering. Answer > > some questions or go away. Quit pushing your pathetic book. > > > > Where did you get your information? From the net ... for free ... of course. > > > > 'Nuff sed. > > > > -- richard > > > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > > > > Maybe you should read the book and tell us an unbiased > > > opinion of it. ;-) > > > > > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > > > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > > > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: richard childers [mailto:fscked@pacbell.net] > > > >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:07 PM > > > >To: Ted Mittelstaedt > > > >Cc: Aaron Hill; gferris@mail.unam.na; freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG > > > >Subject: Re: Order > > > > > > > > > > > >And we all know how much a referral from the author is worth, relatively > > > >speaking ... > > > > > > > >-- richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > > > > > > >> >From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG > > > >> >[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Aaron Hill > > > >> > > > > >> >Gail, > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >Also, please look through that Internet site mentioned as you > > > >will find it > > > >> >offers other titles than just the FreeBSD manual. One such example > > > >> >is a book > > > >> >titled The Complete FreeBSD which many people on this mailing list > > > >> >use, you > > > >> >can find this book (with CDs) by following this link... > > > >> > > > > >> >http://www.wccdrom.com/titles/freebsd/bsdcomp.phtml > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> Or The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide, my book, which HAS a 4.2 > > > >> FreeBSD CDROM included. It is also available overseas - see the > > > >> website for a list of bookstores. > > > >> > > > >> Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > > > >> Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > > > >> Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > >> > > > >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Richard A. Childers > > > >Senor UNIX Administrator > > > >fscked@pacbell.net (email) > > > >203.556.8471 (voice/msgs) > > > > > > > ># Providing administrative expertise (not 'damage control') since 1986. > > > ># PGP fingerprint: 7EFF 164A E878 7B04 8E9F 32B6 72C2 D8A2 582C 4AFA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Richard A. Childers > > Senor UNIX Administrator > > fscked@pacbell.net (email) > > 203.556.8471 (voice/msgs) > > > > # Providing administrative expertise (not 'damage control') since 1986. > > # PGP fingerprint: 7EFF 164A E878 7B04 8E9F 32B6 72C2 D8A2 582C 4AFA > > -- > Richard A. Childers > Senor UNIX Administrator > fscked@pacbell.net (email) > 203.556.8471 (voice/msgs) > > # Providing administrative expertise (not 'damage control') since 1986. > # PGP fingerprint: 7EFF 164A E878 7B04 8E9F 32B6 72C2 D8A2 582C 4AFA > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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