From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 13 16:25:59 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA9A2DF0; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 16:25:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from mail.xcllnt.net (mail.xcllnt.net [50.0.150.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B96651E7; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 16:25:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from [10.65.208.216] ([137.122.64.59]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.xcllnt.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t5DGPf2T096884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 13 Jun 2015 09:25:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Subject: Re: svn commit: r284198 - head/bin/ls Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_094F4660-9354-4466-8BD0-3CA14A572348"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Marcel Moolenaar In-Reply-To: <1434210429.1415.65.camel@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:25:36 -0400 Cc: David Chisnall , Steve Kargl , Alexander Kabaev , Marcel Moolenaar , src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Message-Id: <656256CF-58BF-492B-BA66-49B095407E9A@xcllnt.net> References: <201506100127.t5A1RdX6051959@svn.freebsd.org> <20150612204309.11dd3391@kan> <20150613024916.GA98218@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1434208622.1415.57.camel@freebsd.org> <1434210429.1415.65.camel@freebsd.org> To: Ian Lepore X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 16:25:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_094F4660-9354-4466-8BD0-3CA14A572348 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 13, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Ian Lepore wrote: >=20 > On Sat, 2015-06-13 at 11:38 -0400, David Chisnall wrote: >> On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote: >>>=20 >>> If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme = that >>> could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like = systems >>> completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're >>> well on our way. >>=20 >> There is a lot of heckling and unhelpful hyperbole in this thread. = Reading the xo_emit format strings takes a little bit of getting used = to, but the same is true of printf - it=E2=80=99s just that we=E2=80=99re = already used to printf. The structured parts (xo_open_container, = xo_close_container and friends) are clear and descriptive. The changes = are fairly invasive, but the benefits are also very large for anyone who = is wanting to automate administration of FreeBSD systems. >>=20 >> If you have suggestions for how the libxo APIs could be improved, = then please let us know - Phil is very reception to suggestions but = objections along the lines of =E2=80=98it=E2=80=99s not what I=E2=80=99m = used to and changes sometimes break things so we should never have = changes=E2=80=99 are not helpful. >>=20 >=20 > "This is a piece of crap that needs to be excised from the system and > done a different way" is useful input whether you agree with it or = not. Actually: no. Not only does one not demonstrate an understanding of the problem by calling it =E2=80=9Ccrap=E2=80=9D and thus leaving the recipient to = wonder whether it=E2=80=99s worth his or her time to even respond; the sentence also = lack a concrete suggestion and, last but not least, is utter after this was all discussed on arch@, making it very much one of =E2=80=9Ctoo little, = too late=E2=80=9D. So, not useful at all. -- Marcel Moolenaar marcel@xcllnt.net --Apple-Mail=_094F4660-9354-4466-8BD0-3CA14A572348 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVfFmAAAoJEIda8t8f0tjjZPgP/ivLbkit+reNxHWBghkbKscX rJhq1wUI8FLJ18KGQbNtuFMkhlSNDrDLbJiGmkheKzKh7MTJOWr3s8PwbUvy2qBR XcB/sUK5d8lU7YP2h7+1xxUgkdDLyH7aflwvwOmyW1N69wWY6ft8PpwbBmoAwNSi CvBERn+vQLUZ/H4eDSIs8/uNTkG1K+eexjGou6foNtMHAf3eQyZm+iwr3CX3g6l9 PKwfPX7GK28UjUKkX/TluZsCDGziybQep/Rw0ZhsR+wRaMImTy4FwgTkqxTpCG7Y IOtp1XYr2R2Il3aqfdjEQxL1z8HG+ZhT49p6EwCuqkkbc7aj/4CbFEoRaCNhifeR B/7tQDetzQQWUF9ceTQUrG1m2+lmaJoeO23DOTizQGDm/P0xHBCAVEyAgVssTy1E skNaL8NJ/C4JV9z1dJZlhljQ/sYaVM0Gq6kUE+ODyjgQym6GSYobp5FEpkbCCJM0 CIALvFPkFkl4ELciwZ3lcmXVafKtUMnuVn7z5EpoL5EgM4lHguGPIEU34OZ4gwJb LjBR3OWPSTAABEdJGvsskKy0xDy3PB9oD2cWa0QHPquzextQMHQw8blQwVWXyBbf mr5cI64T5KAsfEuYjdye2zJeHnIB4ETlkHlEwO14O5Wy2fA+i1BP5BBqkHcOeRNI RyCSFkiB1/CM7+FuYMIH =fVh4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_094F4660-9354-4466-8BD0-3CA14A572348--