From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 11:09:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850B016A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail01.stbernard.com (mail01.stbernard.com [64.154.93.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E83443F93 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from salty.rapid.stbernard.com ([192.168.4.61]) by mail01.stbernard.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:09:13 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr.com To: Matthew Graybosch , Denis Troshin Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:09:13 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> <20030901131942.GA20141@christabel.starbreaker.net> In-Reply-To: <20030901131942.GA20141@christabel.starbreaker.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200309021109.13459.wes@softweyr.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2003 18:09:13.0761 (UTC) FILETIME=[50D6C910:01C3717D] cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:09:19 -0000 On Monday 01 September 2003 06:19, Matthew Graybosch wrote: > On 16:58 Mon 01 Sep , Denis Troshin wrote: > > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications > > which depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And > > these libs exist on every base system!!! > > > > Is it possible in unix? > > > > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are > > huge! > > If you want compact unix programs, don't use X apps or apps written > in scripting languages like Perl and Python. FreeBSD by itself > doesn't offer the monstrous APIs that Windows offers; it just offers > an implementation of the standard C library (libc). As a result, > stock FreeBSD is a very barebones environment. -bash-2.05b# size /usr/X11R6/bin/axe text data bss dec hex filename 111943 15860 4296 132099 20403 /usr/X11R6/bin/axe -bash-2.05b# ldd !$ ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/axe /usr/X11R6/bin/axe: libXaw3d.so.7 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXaw3d.so.7 (0x28081000) libXmu.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6 (0x280d4000) libXt.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 (0x280e9000) libSM.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6 (0x28133000) libICE.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6 (0x2813c000) libXpm.so.4 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.so.4 (0x28152000) libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x28160000) libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x2816e000) libc.so.4 => /usr/lib/libc.so.4 (0x2822a000) libXThrStub.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXThrStub.so.6 (0x282c3000) aXe is a reasonably functional text editor for X. Most people these days do not consider 111,943 bytes to be exceptionally large. Some of the libraries layered on top of X these days, GNOME and Qt/KDE in particular, tend to generate huge programs but that is the way of the world. Programs written in scripting languages like Perl and Python tend to favor development time over runtime issues. Which is better depends on the trade-offs in what you are attempting to accomplish. If you need a program this afternoon that does some relatively simple thing and you expect to run this program once or twice, spending a few years developing it versus a few hours writing a script is a very bad tradeoff. If you need a small program that does some specific task, use your favorite search engine. You will usually find a range of programs and can look further for the smallest or otherwise most appropriate one. I guess what I'm trying to say is "do your research, don't rely on platitudes and knee-jerk prejudices from people on mailing lists." And yes, this does belong on -chat. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com