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Date:      Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:35:20 +0000 (GMT)
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
To:        cjclark@home.com
Cc:        mark@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (Mark Ovens), noslenj@swbell.net (Jay Nelson), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Guns and freedom [Was: Re: On "intelligent people" and "dangers to BSD"]
Message-ID:  <200003280035.RAA06519@usr06.primenet.com>
In-Reply-To: <20000326015310.A846@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> from "Crist J. Clark" at Mar 26, 2000 01:53:10 AM

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> And for those who are defending themselves from the Feds, ask that
> crew at Waco or Ruby Ridge how well that works. If you're a small
> group and the gov't wants you, it don't matter how many guns you
> have. There were injustices and abuses of power there, but the guns on
> either side did not help at all.

Actually, the Waco incident was initiated by BATF after the
Branch Davidians purchased of a 50 caliber machine gun.
Considering that the government brought in an M-1 Main Battle
Tank, I suspect that the Branch Davidians were under-unarmed.

The Ruby Ridge incident was initiated over a short-barrelled
shotgun, which was, in fact, not illegal, since it was
grandfathered, having been manufactured prior to the weapons
being made illegal (and "ex post facto" rises once again).

In both cases, it was gung-ho law enforcement that resulted
in the incident blowing all out of proportion.


> Personally, I'm not afraid of the
> Feds turning all bad on us because (a) they just are not that smart or
> have the vision (remember a President only serves 8 years max, if he
> can't disarm enough before his term is up and declares martial law,
> why start the process?) to plan something like that and (b) I know too
> many military people and they are the most patriotic bunch around
> and are not about to be part of a military state (and would not be
> tricked into it because of (a)).

The Chinese military involved in that "little incident" with the
students were probably thought of as a patriotic bunch, as well.

One of the main merits of the U.S. Military is the oath they
swear to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the
Unites States.  They swear allegiance to an ideal, not a man or
a government.

Vietnam has taught us that not all U.S. military people will refuse
an illegal order.  It's a lesson we seem to need to relearn at
intervals, that "just following orders" is insufficient excuse.  It
seems to be part and parcel with being human and having military
organizations.



> One of the things the Founding Fathers
> did get right (even if some ammendments about bearing arms were
> written too vaguely), give Congress the purse strings.

I don't find it vague:

	A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security
	of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear
	arms, shall not be infringed.


Even putting aside the tyrrany argument about "regulate", and
whether the militia should be accountable to an ideal or to a
government, regardless if that government becomes an oppressive
regime... "shall not be infringed" is pretty unambiguous.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.


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