From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 20 15:45:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A0616A4CE; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:45:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from aiolos.otenet.gr (aiolos.otenet.gr [195.170.0.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0884543D1D; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:45:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (aris.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.226])i9KFjkle032689; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:45:46 +0300 Received: from orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (orion [127.0.0.1]) i9KFjj3n046791; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:45:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: (from keramida@localhost)i9KFjjaa046790; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:45:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:45:45 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Maxim Sobolev Message-ID: <20041020154545.GA15763@orion.daedalusnetworks.priv> References: <41767CF1.2020005@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41767CF1.2020005@FreeBSD.org> cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: What do people think about not installing a stripped /kernel ?] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:45:50 -0000 On 2004-10-20 17:57, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > : Subject: What do people think about not installing a stripped /kernel ? > : Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:12:00 -0700 (PDT) > : From: Matthew Dillon > : Newsgroups: dragonfly.kernel > : > : The only cost is disk space... e.g. 3MB stripped kernel verses 16MB > : debug kernel. But the debug info isn't actually loaded into memory so > : the kernel load time and memory overhead is the same as with the stripped > : version. > : > : The issue is bug reports and kernel core dumps. I can't count the number > : of times I have had to carefully instruct people to retrieve their > : kernel.debug's for bug reporting purposes. And even my own debugging > : would be more convenient if I didn't have to save off a separate copy of > : the debug version of the kernel. > : > : What I'm thinking of doing is having the installkernel target install the > : debug version rather then the stripped version unless told to install > : the stripped version with a new option, e.g. 'options INSTALL_STRIPPED'. > : We would ship full debug GENERIC kernels instead of stripped kernels. > : i.e. we aren't getting rid of the ability to install a stripped kernel, > : we just aren't making it the default any more. > : > : What do people think? > > I think that this is good idea which can be adapted for our 6-CURRENT as > well. Disk space is so damn cheap today.... Putting aside the colorful arguments about the exact name of the knob, I say this is a very good idea. Disk space is indeed cheap these days. For those cases where disk space usage matters a lot, a simple setting in `make.conf' might solve whatever seems a problem. In all the machines that I have installed 6.X the size of the root partition is more than 300 MB these days, which can hold at least 2-3 different kernels. The euros/GB price of disks in Patras, Greece, where I live range from 0.43 to 1.12 euros: DESCRIPTION | SIZE | PRICE | EURO/GB --------------------------------------+------+--------+-------- WESTERN DIGITAL 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 200 | 85.90 | 0.43 SEAGATE 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 160 | 80.00 | 0.50 SEAGATE 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 200 | 99.90 | 0.50 WESTERN DIGITAL 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 120 | 64.50 | 0.54 EXCELSTORE 7200rpm, 2MB buffer | 80 | 43.90 | 0.55 WESTERN DIGITAL 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 250 | 140.90 | 0.56 WESTERN DIGITAL 7200rpm, 2MB buffer | 80 | 45.90 | 0.57 MAXTOR 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 200 | 116.00 | 0.58 SEAGATE 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 120 | 72.00 | 0.60 MAXTOR 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 160 | 99.00 | 0.62 SAMSUNG 7200rpm, 2MB buffer | 80 | 50.50 | 0.63 SEAGATE 7200rpm, 2MB buffer | 80 | 50.90 | 0.64 WESTERN DIGITAL 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 80 | 51.50 | 0.64 MAXTOR 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 120 | 89.00 | 0.74 MAXTOR 7200rpm, 16MB buffer | 250 | 189.00 | 0.76 MAXTOR 7200rpm, 16MB buffer | 300 | 229.00 | 0.76 EXCELSTORE 7200rpm, 2MB buffer | 40 | 39.90 | 1.00 WESTERN DIGITAL 7200rpm, 2MB buffer | 40 | 40.50 | 1.01 SAMSUNG 7200rpm, 2MB buffer | 40 | 41.90 | 1.05 WESTERN DIGITAL 7200rpm, 8MB buffer | 40 | 43.50 | 1.09 SEAGATE 7200rpm, 2MB buffer | 40 | 44.90 | 1.12 # Data obtained from the online store of http://www.plaisio.gr # a couple of minutes ago. That's not just cheap. It's dirt cheap, if you ask me. Bearing this in mind, saving a little space in /boot/kernel is hardly worth the effort and the trouble one has to go through in order to locate or compile a debugging kernel when a bug creeps up. - Giorgos