From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Apr 11 00:46:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EAD22A835F for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 00:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gate2.funkthat.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48zbmH60GBz3Nqh; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 00:46:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03B0kKmr014583 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:46:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03B0kK19014582; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:46:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:46:20 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Kyle Evans Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience Message-ID: <20200411004620.GL4213@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Kyle Evans , FreeBSD Hackers References: <20200410061248.GK4213@funkthat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: D87A 235F FB71 1F3F 55B7 ED9B D5FF 5A51 C0AC 3D65 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: https://www.funkthat.com/ X-Resume: https://www.funkthat.com/~jmg/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:46:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48zbmH60GBz3Nqh X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 00:46:24 -0000 Kyle Evans wrote this message on Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 09:49 -0500: > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:12 AM John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > > Kyle Evans wrote this message on Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 14:34 -0500: > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ed Maste wrote: > > > > > > > > Jim Salter has an article in Ars Technica discussing his experience > > > > with FreeBSD 12.1 as a desktop: > > > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/not-actually-linux-distro-review-freebsd-12-1-release/ > > > > > > > > There are some points in there that might involve misunderstanding, > > > > but there are also a number of real issues raised about the experience > > > > a new (or newish) desktop FreeBSD user will have. It will be a good > > > > idea for us to examine these, and offer advice or corrections if > > > > appropriate, and otherwise look how we can improve the FreeBSD > > > > experience for new users. > > > > > > Random small collection of thoughts I had after reading this: > > > > [...] > > > > > 2. re: default shell and niceties: complete agreement, IMO we should > > > at least have basically usable history at a minimum > > > > Hmm... I wonder if this is a terminal issue or something. I do > > remember /bin/sh not working w/ up/down arrow, but I just tried in > > a jail, and up/down arrows work fine. Also, I normally just "set -o vi" > > using /bin/sh to give me vi keys in the shell and then it just works... > > > > Guess more exploration is needed of a fresh install to figure it out... > > My memory here is incredibly hazy, it may be that I was scarred by > history not persisting at all across sessions or something like this; > I quickly installed zsh and never looked back. Yeah, history isn't kept by default, not sure if there's an option to keep it, if there is, I don't see it in the man page, and ctrl-r doesn't work either. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."