From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 25 20:48:55 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7B8106568F; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:48:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0738FC19; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:48:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (66.111.2.69.static.nyinternet.net [66.111.2.69]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2A72646B58; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:48:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhbbsd.hudson-trading.com (unknown [209.249.190.8]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7E5998A029; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:48:54 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:47:36 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <20090825034054.2d57e733@dev.lan.Awfulhak.org> <4A943D06.405@FreeBSD.org> <4A944370.2000306@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4A944370.2000306@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200908251647.36679.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:48:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.1 at bigwig.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on bigwig.baldwin.cx Cc: Doug Barton , Brian Somers , Ivan Radovanovic Subject: Re: Deprecating ps(1)s -w switch X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:48:55 -0000 On Tuesday 25 August 2009 4:02:56 pm Ivan Radovanovic wrote: > Doug Barton napisa: > > Ivan Radovanovic wrote: > > > >> I totally disagree with you - being against change means that you > >> believe it is done the best way it could be done. > >> > > This argument is so non-sequitur that I'm tempted not to respond, but > > no, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that there > > are valid reasons to leave the defaults as they are, AND if you don't > > like the defaults there are easy ways to manipulate that in your own > > environment. > > > You wrote : > > Longer version, I don't see anything wrong with the defaults the way > that they are, and the fact that there is a teeny-tiny learning curve > for people who need to see the full output isn't really an issue that > deserves the time already spent on it. Bruce pointed out in the PR > that most users would be surprised if 'ps -ax | grep foo' suddenly > sprouted a lot more stuff that 'ps -ax' didn't have, and I agree. As a > matter of personal preference I find the current defaults to be just > lovely, and occasionally use -w or -ww if I need to see more. If you > want the default to be something different, that's what aliases are for. > > So, valid arguments against change should be: > 1. users will be surprised if ps starts displaying more stuff no matter if that stuff is correct and less stuff (current state) is incorrect > 2. your personal preference is that current defaults are lovely POLA -- John Baldwin