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Date:      Fri, 23 Jun 1995 02:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
From:      "Rodney W. Grimes" <rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com>
To:        jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Stacey)
Cc:        FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org (FreeBSD current)
Subject:   Re: DES, crypt and eBones
Message-ID:  <199506230941.CAA10181@gndrsh.aac.dev.com>
In-Reply-To: <199506222310.BAA04270@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Stacey" at Jun 23, 95 01:10:07 am

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[CC: trimmed to -current, all of those folks should be on there]
> 
> 
> > but without
> > a site as devoted to FreeBSD as freefall by corporate dollar I don't see
> > us moving the bits any place.
> 
> gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de is backed by the German government's Deutsche Mark,
> it's been available as a `volunteer host' for a long time, it's just lacking
> people doing things on it (it is of course a FreeBSD host).

And government backing is not garanteed to stay around, infact that is the
kind that suddenly dissapears on you when you least expect it.  Isn't that
a university machine that will probably go away when Christoph P. Kukulies
leaves the university (say, like after graduation).

> If we mirror the src cvs  & majordomo security lists from the non-USA master
> site to a backup site, _and_ to freefall, we will have more 
> security against any one site or regime causing problems, than 
> we do for the rest of the code base.

Some one has already pointed out the flaw in that plan, importing as well
as exporting munitions is a violation of State Department regulations.
DES, and for that mater most encryption software, is classified as a
minution by the US State Department, and many foreign governments.
 
> A South African or German site could be ideal as crypt master.
> All the US folks could continue to sup off their USA mirror of the SA
> or German master site, but we'd be a step away from USA gov't interference.
>
> We could also put a short README in all the directories, saying that as the 
> USA Government discriminates against non USA citizens & persecutes its own
> citizens, that anyone using crypt code should refuse to provide any 
> information whatsoever regarding code derivation to any USA government person.

It is a criminal act to ``refuse to provide any information'' if the
requester is any form of US policing agency.  A sure fire way to land
yourself behind bars in a hurry.  Alls they have to do is get a Sepona
for the information, and then find you in contempt of court when you
fail to produce it.  

> The purpose being to allay fears of our USA BSD friends.
> The notice itself should be drafted by a non USA person (Mark or Paul ?)
> and generally agreed to by core@freebsd

The act of doing this could be considered treason and or a conspiracy to
defraud the federal government.  I think that would hold true in almost
any country.

> Perhaps our notice should be the corollory of the USA notice ?
> Our notice should be phrased to be as equally obnoxious to the USA
> government, as their notice is that they force on USA FTP sites,
> where one is instructed to ask the local USA embassy's ruling on how USA
> national law overides local national law.
> (Correct answer: not at all, each nation has it's own sovereign jurisdiction)

It does when you are accessing a machine within the USA.
 
> Those CVS commiters who are USA based could be offered the choice of
> being included or excluded from CVS access lists (thus they could say to 
> the US authorities: 
>   "Hey, don't blame, I didn't do that, I don't even have write access" )

That is not a reasonable defense and would not work as one, especially
for any one who had root access or prior knowledge of the law being
broken (can you say passive accompliss(sp)).

> Our Crypt code work should be done outside the USA, if the link between
> USA & SA is too slow or low bandwidth try `gil' by the German/Belgian border,
> a couple of core@freebsd people (Rod & ?) already have logins for that host.
> 
> gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de is controlled by kuku@acds.physik.rwth-aachen.de

Then allow Mr. Kukulies to offer the services, not you.


-- 
Rod Grimes                                      rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com
Accurate Automation Company                 Reliable computers for FreeBSD



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